At one point I found that I had several issues with the BoB skill list. I decided to figure out what was wrong, so I made a table in which I compared BoB skills with skills from other fantasy roleplaying systems (namely, WFRP 2nd ed., Zweihander, TRoS, Dark Heresy). Now the list has changed a bit and I definitely like the changes. Below I'll comment on the current skill list taking into account my comparative study.
Athletics
I see that the concept is to make skills quite broad so that there won't be dozens of them in the game. The Athletics here is a good example of that. In my opinion, the key features covered are climbing and swimming. Usually (hereinafter this means "in many other systems") these two are separate skills while running and jumping/leaping is covered by attribute checks. Indeed, a good climber is not always a good swimmer (bar James Bond, of course), and for me personally, it would make sense to separate climbing from swimming. But this would make those skills too narrow and incoherent with the system, so, I guess, this one is OK and may be left as it is.
Command
Now, this one is quite common, but it is used quite seldom in games. Besides, it seems not so broad. With Athletics you can run, and swim, and scale cliffs... With Command you can, well, command (on those rare occasions when your character has some subordinate NPCs). I sincerely haven't got a clue as for how to deal with it, and probably it should be left as it is. Another option is to merge it with Warfare skill.
Coercion
This one is a good addition. Torture, blackmail, intimidation – all in one. It's fine.
Craft
Removing Trade and adding Craft makes sense. I also liked the flexibility of Trade, just like taelor, but I can see Agamemnon's point.
Culture
A lore skill, not very useful (unless the GM comes up with some interesting ideas). In WFRP it is called Common Knowledge (area or country). It's fine, I guess.
Education
Now, this one seems a bit too broad but it may be mitigated easily. If a GM wants to make a science-heave adventure, he may feel free to add certain science-related skills as he sees fit.
Engeneering
This is also a good one. There are really a lot of things one may do with this skill. However, I'd suggest that in order to bring some fruits of engineering to life the character (or other characters at his command) should use the appropriate Craft skills. E.g. you may know how to make a trap, but to actually make it you'd require assistance from a smith.
Gambling
That's a curious one. On one hand, it also seems narrow and not very useful (and besides, can you really learn to gamble well, bar cheating?). On the other hand, that's what bastards and scoundrels do in their spare time: drinking, debauching and gambling! Agamemnon, you've mentioned that you know how to deal with it, so I'll just relax about it and wee what you bring us.
Horsmanship
It's a good idea to make a broader version of a necessary but rather dull Ride skill. But I see here a couple of issues that will be discussed later under Teamster skill and in Uncovered section.
Impersonation
This is acting, right?.. See also the entry for Perform skill.
Language
It's OK, no comments.
Larceny
This one's fine (albeit, I had to consult a dictionary to discover what the word means).
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif)
Legerdemain
I bet, it was intentional to name these two skills so that they would go one after the other.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Lore
I guess that's what you use when you want to narrow down some knowledge skills that would otherwise fall under Education.
Manipulation
My biggest issue was with social skills and I think that the changes that you've made have all but repaired it. Still, I'm not feeling very comfortable with this skill's name. In other games, there are usually skills that let you communicate with people (and get something from them) by being nice. Those skills are usually called Charm or something like that. This is probably covered by this skill. But it still feels strange if I say: "OK, I come up to those guys in the tavern, greet them, put in a joke and ask 'What's up?'" And my GM nods at me and says: "A smart move this is. Now roll your Manipulation
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
Medicine
Powerful skill. What if I want my character to know how to dress a wound (and nothing else). Take 1-2 points of Medicine? But I want my character to dress wound really well! Make it a Lore (dress wounds) skill? I dunno. Apart from that, the skill is fine (but see Uncovered section below).
Mercantile
Fine skill, BoB lacked it. There are players that enjoy playing successful merchants.
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif)
Navigation
What's that exactly? Finding your way in the wilderness and at sea? You've probably stripped it off Survival skill. Wouldn't it be too narrow?.. On the other hand, if Survival included full-scale navigation, it would be far too broad. So, it's probably OK.
Negotiation
I can see DannyBoy's point:
Seems that you can swap those skills and achieve the same results. I'd rather call it Diplomacy (and that would take a chunk off Politics skill which is fine).DannyBoy wrote:Wouldn't Mercantile be sort of part and parcel with Negotiation? They seem to be pretty close to the same thing.
Oration
Now, this one seems to me too narrow, especially in comparison to most other skills. In the same time, this skill is quite necessary. I like the way it is dealt with in WFRP. In that system, there is a talent called Public Speaking which allows a character to use his Charm skill while talking to large groups of people. It may be done the same way here: remove the Orate skill and add an Edge called Orator that would allow characters to use their Manipulation, Negotiation (Diplomacy!) and even Coercion skills with large crowds.
Perform
It seems fine, but if Impersonation is really acting, then it should be a part of Perform skill family. You may say that Impersonation is a different, broader skill that allows a character to completely 'turn into' any other character, just as, I dunno, some Shakespear characters or fairy tale heroes. If so, than Impersonation seems to be too powerful and I'd consider changing or removing it.
Seamanship
A good one.
Stewardship
This one's also fine. It's not the same as Mercantile, as far as I am concerned, and it may be useful in longer campaigns about noble houses or something like that.
Politics
Good skill. (That reminds me of the plot of "The Fencing Master" by Arturo Pérez-Reverte, where the protagonist was a valorous man, but he couldn't understand the intrigue he was involved into due to the lack of the Politics skill).
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Stealth
A good and necessary one, but speaking strictly for me, it feels so powerful! I mean, you see, in WFRP 1st ed. there were 5 skills that would fall under this one (those were Concealment (Rural), Concealment (Urban), Silent Move (Rural), Silent Move (Urban) and Shadowing (which was a skill of following a person without being noticed)).
(Steel)
Liked it. )
Streetwise
This is a good one, but I didn't really like the description in BoB rulebook. It says just about getting information, and in my understanding, Streetwise is much more. It includes the knowledge how to behave in certain places and circumstances, where to find certain people, how to deal with them, etc.
Survival
That's fine.
Teamster
In my opinion, this skill falls out of the whole 'broader skills' concept. It is said in the description that this skill covers construction of carriages, etc. which is wrong because construction should be covered by a Craft skill. This is a common skill and you can often see it in other systems, but, while quite useful, it always seems somewhat... boring. When you manage to put this heavy treasure chest on the cart, the GM will smile evilly and ask: "So, is there anybody who can drive this thing?" That's why you always take it. And it's boring. And narrow.
That's why I suggest that this skill should be included in the Horsemanship skill. And the construction part should be covered by an appropriate Craft.
Warfare
It seems necessary, but as for me, I don't really know how to use it (as a GM or otherwise). This skill probably requires a subsystem in which it would be used (such as mass combat or something similar). I'll leave it for you, dear authors, to deal with.
Uncovered
In the bottom of my comparison table, there are a few skills that were left uncovered by the BoB skills list. Fortunately after the update that list became shorter (there were such things as Row (which is now covered by Seamanship), Torture and Evaluate (now covered by Mercantile)). There are still a couple left.
Let's return to Horsemanship. It says that the skill covers horses training. While this makes sense, it also suggests that there should be a skill that would allow to train other animals. ) For this reason, I suggest that animal training may be covered by a separate skill (which would also cover caring for animals, knowing their habits, etc.). And the Horsemanship skill would still retain its broadness by incorporating Teamster.
There's no skill in BoB and SaS that would deal with non-verbal information, lip-reading, body language and empathy. In Dark Heresy there's a skill called Scrutiny, that allows a character to see if he is being lied to. There's also the Deceive skill in that game, but that's probably covered by Manipulation.
There's also Acrobatics skill that is absent, the favorite thing of all elves and showoffs. ) It may be incorporated into Athletics, but I don't think it is a good idea. Adding this skill may also require some addition to combat rules (which is a pain). Maybe another Edge?..
The most important thing that is absent from the system is alchemy/apothecary/herbalism-related skills. I was impressed by the approach to Herbalism skill in TRoS. In other systems, this was a really boring and unimportant skill that basically allowed characters to tell one weed from another. In TRoS (as you can't fail to know) Herbalism was an important and powerful skill that allowed characters to brew remedies and poisons that actually worked. What TRoS lacked was a skill to work in a laboratory, – the kind of stuff that was covered by Trade (Apothecary) skill in WFRP 2nd ed. That system also has a specific skill with a self-explanatory name called Prepare Poisons. As it follows from the description, now herbs knowledge and poisons are covered by Medicine skill, but that makes it far too powerful.
So that's what we got to deal with in my opinion: (1) knowledge of herbs, beneficial or poisonous, and ways to make preparations from them; and (2) the skill of working in a laboratory and prepare drugs or poisons using different substances, including nonorganic materials. As far as I am concerned, Herbalism skill may be introduced for the former, and the latter may be covered by a dedicated Craft skill (though calling it a Trade would've been more appropriate) together with an appropriate Education or Lore skill (such as Alchemy).
And this is it. I sincerely hope that this was somehow useful or entertaining. Thank you for reading.