Swordplay and the Wordsmith

[Arrow Odd]

The trouble was, of course, that "fantasy" for most people also meant hobbits, dwarves, and elves, which is why early editions treat those as their own archetypes.

When I encountered D&D (via the Basic rulebook in '78) I had very little to draw on. Probably just Tolkien, CS Lewis and various Myth/Tales books by the marvelous Roger Lancelyn Green. But then, I was 11 at the time.

[Agamemnon]

I think my early background was largely mythology (I was a huge hellenophile) and folklore, and then later Robert E. Howard, lovecraft, etc.

I later got into Lord of the Rings and the like, but it never struck me quite the same way. Even my early D&D games were very very human-centric. It was a long time before someone decided they wanted to be an elf or a dwarf or the like, and by then it was because we had started reading the awful dragonlance books.

Let's open the floodgates though - what fiction would you guys suggest I throw on my reading list?

[hector]

For more genre fiction type stuff, David Eddings can be pretty entertaining. He was the Michael Bay of fantasy books, to be sure, but he did character interactions pretty well. In The Rivan Codex, he was pretty honest about writing for money, and stealing heavily from Arthurian legend for just about every book he ever wrote (hence why the characters always seem to be the same ones).

The Wheel of Time is another pretty good series; started by the late Robert Jordan and finished by Brandon Sanderson. It slows down a lot about midway through (which in a fourteen book series of between 600-1000 books can be a problem), but it picks up again towards the end. Funnily enough, I suspect Caerhien would be a pretty good setting for this game - it's a city where nobles have taken scheming to a high art, where even the person tending the bar is probably playing his part in "the great game", where thieves run rife and almost everybody is on at least one noble's payroll.

[Marras]

If you have not read Gentlemen Bastards books (Lies of Locke Lamora is the first in series) by Scott Lynch, I highly recommend those as inspiration for criminally inclined games.

For the same reason I suggest Among Thieves by Douglas Hulick. This has a great use of thieves' cant.

Both series are pretty normal fantasy when considering tech level but there are no elves etc.

[Agamemnon]

I've certainly got some things to add to my list then. I keep hearing recommendations for the Wheel of Time. I guess I'll have to sit down with it finally, once the November grind is over. Among Thieves sounds like my kind of book anyway. I can't hide my terrible soft-spot for ne'er-do-wells.

I'm basically just going to comb this thread as it develops and keep tossing things in my "to read" pile.

[higgins]

I keep hearing recommendations for the Wheel of Time.

I keep hearing them as well, except I still can't get past "the village boy is the chosen one, destined to save the world" premise. And while the setting definitely has its interesting bits, it seemed to be full of katana-plonkers, both in the terms of fancy-named sword forms and a curious absence of shields.

[Marras]

The same applies to Belgariad as well. A nobody kid is destined to save the world.

I don't usually like that kind of set up in books, TV or films so it restricts some books that I am willing to read.

[higgins]

I don't usually like that kind of set up in books, TV or films so it restricts some books that I am willing to read.

Being the fast-paced world that we live in, I'd argue that such restriction is actually a good thing. Details aside, we all know what will happen in such stories anyway, so, we'd be much better off spending our time on something more interesting.

[Agamemnon]

I don't know. I don't mind them. After all, every story has been done before. It's all about what you do with it along the way.

The Blade itself is effectively a "save the world" quest, no? It's not just a save the world quest, it's almost an inverse lord of the rings, with the wizard being an asshole (well, more of an asshole) and gathering random people for his fellowship.

It's not the ending, it's not the premise. It's the journey.

Now, granted, there are certain kinds of story that I'm more likely to groan at, but I try not to discount anything off the bat.

[Marras]

It is kind of true that it is useful to have certain criteria that you can use to filter down the books you want to read. After all, there are so many unread books and so little time

As I mentioned, I really don't like books with children as heroes. Somehow it breaks some kind of logic that lives in my head. Still, there are books with this setup that are still quite good.

One is, of course, The Earthsea trilogy by Ursula LeGuin. But it's a classic like Treasure Island (also good).

The third I want to mention is because it is sort of relevant to the game (although it is pretty typical fantasy novel meaning there are no guns). It is The Thief-Taker's Apprentice series by Stephen Deas.

[higgins]

The Blade itself is effectively a "save the world" quest, no? It's not just a save the world quest, it's almost an inverse lord of the rings, with the wizard being an asshole (well, more of an asshole) and gathering random people for his fellowship.

You nailed it -- the novel stands on its own merit, but it is also pretty much a parody on the common tropes, which adds that extra layer which makes it super fun for those of us more versed in the genre.

Also, none of the characters in The Blade Itself were adolescent peasants with cosmic destiny.

[Agamemnon]

Also, none of the characters in The Blade Itself were adolescent peasants with cosmic destiny.

I'll give you that, but Joseph Campbell would be awfully miffed at casually dismissing the value of the Hero's Journey. It's not exactly my cup of tea, but it's one of those core myths that cultures cherish.

I will say, the one thing that I have a really hard time reading is "normal earth person becomes hero of other world" fiction. Narnia, Barsoom.. the god-awful Gor books. I am irrationally bothered by the idea of "person from earth is transported to another world and manages to save it."

I totally understand why it is done. It means no matter how alien the world is, we have a character with whom we can completely relate because we share their frame of reference. Even better, it means that we the reader can find out things as the character does, so the author has an easy out for info-dumping. It also hits that adolescent kind of wish-fulfillment where see? YOU could be the hero!

For me though, it's the complete opposite of what I want in a book. I love investigating cultures and worlds. Give me someone who is actually native there, so I can experience it through a native's eyes. If I'm reading for escapism, I want to be immersed in the culture - not reminded that the main character is from modern earth every few pages.

I also have a high bias towards stories about people who are good at what they do, rather than common men and women who must rise to the occasion. I can't argue that there is a certain drama to that story arc (who doesn't love an underdog story?) but I look at something like the Karate Kid and am secretly annoyed that a quick training montage makes you better than the cobra kai kid who has likely been doing this for years. We can only assume that Daniel-san had a whole bunch of SAs firing.

[Arrow Odd]

with the wizard being an asshole .

I kept expecting him to say "I am Dungeon Master"

[Marras]

I have been (slowly*) reading The Barrow by Mark Smylie. He is also author of Artesia graphic novels and Artesia RPG. It is a bit heavy on the side of magic but nothing too major.

Why I wanted to add this book to this thread is because the cast in the book is pretty much a bastard or at least has a dark secret. So, no actually good characters so far in the book.

*) The reading has been slow because I have only read it while going to work and getting back home again.