What's in a Name?

[Agamemnon]

As mentioned in the post officially announcing the new draft, our last major revision had an accompanying name change. While Song of Steel became Band of Bastards out of necessity, it did help shape and hone the direction we've taken since. Now I wonder if we should consider a new name to accompany the new revision.

On the benefits side, 'Bastards has some things going for it. It's got an endearing quality to it to begin with, and catches the flavor we're going for to a nice degree. Strategically, we've had the name long enough that there are people who have heard of it and we're ranking pretty well for it on google.

On the other hand, the competition for that ranking includes nazi porn. As you might imagine, this is something of a disadvantage. Similarly problematic, the vulgarity of the name might put off some people from looking into it for being gratuitous or potentially immature. It might even influence our ability to work with retailers, should some store or service turn prudish on us.

Looking for general feedback. Vote in the poll, even if you don't have time to comment. If you do support a name change, feel free to suggest alternatives. I have a couple that were floated around, but I'm curious as to what you might come up with.

[nemedeus]

I voted the first option but only insofar as I think the name should include "bastards" in some way.

[thirtythr33]

As much as I like the current name, it probably is the smarter business move to change it. You don't want people having to sift through porn when they are trying to find your website or recommending a friend try the game. If you are changing, sooner is better than later no doubt.

If you do support a name change, feel free to suggest alternatives. I have a couple that were floated around, but I'm curious as to what you might come up with.

I'd like to see your other ideas.

Personally, I've always been a huge sucker of the "X & X" with alliteration. For this game's themes, something like:
Swords & Scoundrels
Knights & Knaves
Swords & Skulduggery
But going with a name with OSR or retroclone connotations is probably not a good idea.

Since you are going with using "Phrases" in combat, and the fact the combat is one of the games drawing features, I would love to see it called "A Conversation In Steel" or ACIS. Reasons:

• It's bad ass
• It pays homage to The Riddle of Steel
• It also indicates you have upgraded from the (confusing) riddle and graduated to a back and forth conversation
• conversation hints at the the player-driven slant of the game, as well as the fact it is a TTRPG in general
• it is an uncommon, but known classical fencing phrase
• it somehow simultaneously sounds gritty and fantastical
• It would rank well in google; there are only 10 hits for "conversation in steel" (the highest of which is a 3yr old youtube video with 510 views)
• You can call chapter 1 "Beginnings of a conversation"
• It's a great reason to push the metaphor further

Unfortunately, ACIS as an acronym has a lot of competition.

[taelor]

Since you are going with using "Phrases" in combat, and the fact the combat is one of the games drawing features, I would love to see it called "A Conversation In Steel" or ACIS.

I like this.

[Agamemnon]

A Conversation in Steel has a certain ring to it. We can add it to the list. Sword & Scoundrel was one I rather liked as well. It's the name of my blog thing, but the origin of the phrase goes back to when Henri and I tried to figure out what it was we were going for in terms of genre and feel for 'Bastards. We realized a lot of the vibe was very swords & sorcery, but we weren't focused on the magic and the weird. "So less like swords and sorcerors and more like Swords & Assholes." Which then turned into "Sword & Scoundrel" followed by "Blades & Bastards" and then finally the title we have now. (Notable and amusing riffs that also came out of that bullshitting session - Rapiers & Rakes, Cutlass & Curr, Dusack & Douchebag, and the one that almost sounds good enough to use for something: Messers & Meisters.) I completely agree that the ampersand might turn people off though and give it a slightly more OSR vibe than we intend.

We have three main selling points we can capitalize on. A good title should try to encapsulate as many as possible.
1. The character-motivation gameplay. That internal conflict, moral dilemma, and hard choices are the highlight of the game.
2. The fast-paced, brutal combat system. We are, at heart, a blood opera. A character drama framed by bloodshed.
3. The sort of genre conventions of the implied setting, a Renaissance-esq dark fantasy world where the above two points have room to wreak havoc.

The first two are ultimately way more important than the lattermost.

[DannyBoy]

While Band of Bastards is just an alright name, I am absolutely in love with the tagline "a Game of Violence, Passion, and General Skullduggery". That needs to stay somewhere in the mix, maybe on the back cover or something.

Thirtythr33's A Conversation in Steel is quite frankly one of the best names I've ever heard. Seriously, it seems like there's an awesome cult hit novel with that name out there somwhere.

[thirtythr33]

Thirtythr33's A Conversation in Steel is quite frankly one of the best names I've ever heard. Seriously, it seems like there's an awesome cult hit novel with that name out there somwhere.

It's actually a quote from Arthur Wise' Art and History of Personal Combat (1972). The full quote is close to: "Violence is above all a means of communication, and fencing is a conversation in steel."

The metaphor of the fencing duel as a conversation in steel has floated around in the romantic and violent history of the sport. Like a conversation, there is an exchange, a give and take, if you don't pay attention, you can be hurt. There is attack and riposte. Their is point, then counter point. The conceit is as old as the sport itself, and the language is reflected in such comments as 'What a witty riposte" and other french phrases.

If you like the sound of all that, I can recommend K.J. Parker's Sharps, which more recently popularized the phrase.

[dysjunct]

I like "Sword & Scoundrel" the best so far, regardless of OSR implications.

It hits all of Agamemnon's points. It is short and punchy, which "A Conversation in Steel" is not (to my ears anyway). The latter sounds more like a supplement or a chapter heading than a game.

[Agamemnon]

While Band of Bastards is just an alright name, I am absolutely in love with the tagline "a Game of Violence, Passion, and General Skullduggery". That needs to stay somewhere in the mix, maybe on the back cover or something.

I will completely agree on this point. It hits just the right note. With the right title, it makes a great subtitle and does a good job of painting the feel of what we're going for.

I like "Sword & Scoundrel" the best so far, regardless of OSR implications.

It hits all of Agamemnon's points. It is short and punchy, which "A Conversation in Steel" is not (to my ears anyway). The latter sounds more like a supplement or a chapter heading than a game.

Also valid point, at least insofar as it being shorter and punchier. Also, combines well with the above subtitle.

Once we get a few more ideas, I'll make some kind of poll for it.

[Marras]

I understand that in times like these it is better if the name is not associated with anything like that. There are far too many people out there who can feel offended (sometimes even on purpose) and that's a shame. It's a shame especially as I liked the name, short and punchy

While "A Conversation in Steel" would be a great homage to TRoS I don't think it really catches all of what this game is about. It tells about the combat system and while important part of the game's mechanics is still only half of it. So, "Sword & Scoundrel" is by far better in my mind or "Scoundrel's Tale". Of course it depends on how much emphasis you want to give on gaming at the seedier side of law. That's what comes to my mind on a name like this but then again I am not a native speaker in English.

[myanbar]

You should change your name to something that does not show porn above your game in search results.
For 100% selfish reasons, I want your new name to start with a B. All of Song of Swords' sister systems start with a B. (Burning Wheel, Blade of the Iron Throne, Ballad of the Laser Whales, Band of Bastards.)

It is up to you to uphold this storied tradition.

[EinBein]

I also liked the Bastards part... But can understand the problems, especially when going public. I'd like something like:

• Fellowship of Bastards (like in Fellowship of the Ring, which shows the shift in focus from an allmighty item to the Bastards forming the fellowship and their egocentric motivations)

[Korbel]

1. The character-motivation gameplay. That internal conflict, moral dilemma, and hard choices are the highlight of the game.
2. The fast-paced, brutal combat system. We are, at heart, a blood opera. A character drama framed by bloodshed.

You could go with something like Blood at the Crossroads, but it's sooo obvious and cliched... and there is a book with a title like this already.

[nemedeus]

Okay uhm

How about, just "Bastards - a Game of Violence, Passion, and General Skullduggery"

Or "Bunch of Bastards"

[Marras]

"Knives and Knaves"