Looking forward to beta
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
This week I did some real gloves-off editing on chapter one. It got pretty red, but most edits were minor. As I was pressing Agamemnon to rubber stamp chapter two for final editing, we ran into some weirdness with monetary system. Who saw that one coming, right?
In any case, it is now abundantly clear for us why most games either make the economy thing completely up, or abstract it all into Resources or something other equally vague. I sincerely hope we can wrap that issue up this evening as Agamemnon wakes up (and yes, this latter can only make sense in our timezone-lagged partnership).
In any case, it is now abundantly clear for us why most games either make the economy thing completely up, or abstract it all into Resources or something other equally vague. I sincerely hope we can wrap that issue up this evening as Agamemnon wakes up (and yes, this latter can only make sense in our timezone-lagged partnership).
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Siggi
- Flowchart Sensei
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Interesting!
I can hardly imagine how game designers even manage to create those monetary systems! How do you know how much should this or that particular item cost?! How to make a decent list of useful items that characters would wish to buy?.. In certain fantasy roleplaying game (OK, I'm talking about Warhammer as I usually do) when I look at the inventory page I see that the prices don't make any sense whatsoever. This is a fantasy world indeed if even the lowliest peasant carries a couple o' gold pieces in his pocket!
In that regard TRoS items list had much more realistic prices. Wish you luck, guys, in this important task! In such setting as "Bastards' everything concerning money is important. You got to make the money 'tangible' somehow.
I can hardly imagine how game designers even manage to create those monetary systems! How do you know how much should this or that particular item cost?! How to make a decent list of useful items that characters would wish to buy?.. In certain fantasy roleplaying game (OK, I'm talking about Warhammer as I usually do) when I look at the inventory page I see that the prices don't make any sense whatsoever. This is a fantasy world indeed if even the lowliest peasant carries a couple o' gold pieces in his pocket!
In that regard TRoS items list had much more realistic prices. Wish you luck, guys, in this important task! In such setting as "Bastards' everything concerning money is important. You got to make the money 'tangible' somehow.
- Marras
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Thanks for the update! The idea for currency system sounded neat so I hope that you can make it work.
- EinBein
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Re: Looking forward to beta
I think in reality, it has been a highly flexible system with everchanging values and the church trying to regulate as much as possible (standard prices for standard wares on the markets).
Should be no easy task But "the more enemies, the more honor".
Should be no easy task But "the more enemies, the more honor".
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Well, luckily there are surviving sources, but these tend to have quite random items in them. Frankly, we guesstimate quite a bit, but with the historical sources as a frame of reference. Being quotable in a textbook is nice, but in the end, we're building a game after all.Siggi wrote:How do you know how much should this or that particular item cost?! How to make a decent list of useful items that characters would wish to buy?
P.S.
Don't tell Agamemnon, but I snuck away from the keyboard to a quick tourney while he was asleep.
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Agamemnon
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Sword and Scoundrel: On Role-Playing and Fantasy Obscura
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife — chopping off what’s incomplete and saying: "Now it’s complete because it’s ended here."
Collected Sayings of Muad’Dib, the Princess Irulan
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife — chopping off what’s incomplete and saying: "Now it’s complete because it’s ended here."
Collected Sayings of Muad’Dib, the Princess Irulan
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
No new final-edited chapters this week, but we've done so much reviewing that I can almost feel a chapter or two chapter ending up in the editing room quite soon. Agamemnon has the better overview on the overall progress, but it hasn't been a bad week at all. I'm quite pleased with the amount of work we got done.
As far as the wealth system is concerned, I'm frustrated to say that we're still tackling it. The existing system is consistent, flavorful and works, except for one detail -- it's ridiculously easy to exploit. And the flaw can't really be written out since, it's basically the whole premise of it. We may or may not go into further detail about all that, but right now we're seriously considering a narrative money solution.
As far as the wealth system is concerned, I'm frustrated to say that we're still tackling it. The existing system is consistent, flavorful and works, except for one detail -- it's ridiculously easy to exploit. And the flaw can't really be written out since, it's basically the whole premise of it. We may or may not go into further detail about all that, but right now we're seriously considering a narrative money solution.
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- EinBein
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Nice. Thanks for the update!higgins wrote:No new final-edited chapters this week, but we've done so much reviewing that I can almost feel a chapter or two chapter ending up in the editing room quite soon.
Let us help please, tell us of your problemshiggins wrote:As far as the wealth system is concerned, I'm frustrated to say that we're still tackling it. The existing system is consistent, flavorful and works, except for one detail -- it's ridiculously easy to exploit. And the flaw can't really be written out since, it's basically the whole premise of it. We may or may not go into further detail about all that, but right now we're seriously considering a narrative money solution.
- Mozusuke
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Re: Looking forward to beta
I know there are other points of view round here but I just want to say for the record... I'm more than happy with a narrative solution for money. The other rulesets I'm currently playing have all gone down that route to one degree or another (Blade, Cortex Plus) and I personally find it elegant and liberating. I suspect I may be in the minority though.
- Marras
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Thanks for the update!
Abstract system for wealth handling works sometimes and sometimes can cause problems.
If you just want to buy food and lodging, even for buying "adventuring" gear it works fine. It can work fine when you get steady income from a job or other source. But if you make a heist or find treasure, how can you handle that? I stumbled upon that when I was reading Burning Wheel some years ago.
I understood that your system was less abstract and I hope you can make it work as it looked promising.
Abstract system for wealth handling works sometimes and sometimes can cause problems.
If you just want to buy food and lodging, even for buying "adventuring" gear it works fine. It can work fine when you get steady income from a job or other source. But if you make a heist or find treasure, how can you handle that? I stumbled upon that when I was reading Burning Wheel some years ago.
I understood that your system was less abstract and I hope you can make it work as it looked promising.
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Sorry for the lack of activity this week. It was kind of busy for both of us, but we managed to clean up the Flaws section. Might not sound too impressive feat, but we DO have a LOT of them.
As for making our money system problems public... I'll float that idea to Agamemnon and we'll see.
As for making our money system problems public... I'll float that idea to Agamemnon and we'll see.
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Marras
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Re: Looking forward to beta
I understand that you do this part time and it is better to concentrate that time on beta than just hang around here
Thanks for the update!
Going public with any game mechanics problem etc. is a double edged sword. So I am sure you do what works best for you.
Thanks for the update!
Going public with any game mechanics problem etc. is a double edged sword. So I am sure you do what works best for you.
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Okay, on some weeks (life+work)² just happens.
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Marras
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Re: Looking forward to beta
That's a bummer but yeah, sometimes it just happens...
- higgins
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Re: Looking forward to beta
Sorry for the late update. I fell asleep last night while working on the NPC section slash bestiary. Also we've decided upon abstract coinage to smooth things out.
"You can never have too many knives."
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself
- Logen Ninefingers, The Blade Itself