Sword & Scoundrel 0.2.0 Feedback : Book II : Creation

[Benedict]

Typos, feedback, questions. Whatever makes your world turn.

[thorgarth]

The List of Skills seems a bit on the short side. Its true that the "Expertise" solution opens way to add pretty much what you want but its scope seems a bit more restrict than the skills already available, given the formulation of its text. For instance, I would like to see "Athletics" back on the list, which give us a general skill covering a wide array of physical tasks.

[Benedict]

The List of Skills seems a bit on the short side. Its true that the "Expertise" solution opens way to add pretty much what you want...

Plus Lore and Trade.

its scope seems a bit more restrict than the skills already available, given the formulation of its text. For instance, I would like to see "Athletics" back on the list, which give us a general skill covering a wide array of physical tasks

Its up to you as a GM to define how narrow or broad these skills are. Meaning that no one stops you from an "Expertise: Athletics" skill. Or if you prefer a take in the likes of "Expertise: Climbing", "Expertise: Tumbling", "Expertise: Swimming", "Expertise: Pole Vaulting", yada yada.

[Agamemnon]

The List of Skills seems a bit on the short side. Its true that the "Expertise" solution opens way to add pretty much what you want but its scope seems a bit more restrict than the skills already available, given the formulation of its text. For instance, I would like to see "Athletics" back on the list, which give us a general skill covering a wide array of physical tasks.

There's no reason to have an "Athletics" skill as a core part of the skill list. Nearly every possible function of athletics is already covered by an attribute. Climbing/jumping/balance is Agility. Running and the like is Speed. Endurance tasks are Grit, lifting is Brawn. Having an athletics skill is not only redundant, it robs the physical attributes of any value other than serving as modifiers for other parts of the system, which is lame.

That said, the Expertise skill is there for a reason: to allow the player to expand the skill list to cover abilities they want to focus in. This even works well for functions like Running or Climbing that are already covered by Attributes, as you can always tap in the attribute since the attribute was meant to cover it to begin with, and skills advance twice as quickly/cheaply as attributes anyway. I have no idea how you have decided that the scope "seems a bit more restrict than the skills already available." Expertise and Lore are the broadest skills in the game because they are entirely player-defined.

Expertise is a placeholder for any skill a character might want that isn’t already covered by an existing skill, such as wanting your character to be particularly good at climbing or swimming, or an obscure skill like Lip Reading. Like all (Specific) skills, expertise must be defined when the skill is taken. Expertise is generally about doing things. If you want to know things, take Lore. If you want to make something, produce something, or earn a living, look at Trade instead.

Literally the only restriction is "If you want to do lore shit, use that instead. If you want to do work shit, use trade instead."

[thorgarth]

There's no reason to have an "Athletics" skill as a core part of the skill list. Nearly every possible function of athletics is already covered by an attribute. Climbing/jumping/balance is Agility. Running and the like is Speed. Endurance tasks are Grit, lifting is Brawn. Having an athletics skill is not only redundant, it robs the physical attributes of any value other than serving as modifiers for other parts of the system, which is lame.

That said, the Expertise skill is there for a reason: to allow the player to expand the skill list to cover abilities they want to focus in. This even works well for functions like Running or Climbing that are already covered by Attributes, as you can always tap in the attribute since the attribute was meant to cover it to begin with, and skills advance twice as quickly/cheaply as attributes anyway. I have no idea how you have decided that the scope "seems a bit more restrict than the skills already available." Expertise and Lore are the broadest skills in the game because they are entirely player-defined.

Well, exactly because the examples you gave in expertise were focused on specific physical activities like swimming or climbing, and not as an overall Athletics skill, covering all this types of physical activity, whereas skills such as Warfare and Legerdemain cover a huge scope.

[eggdropsoap]

I discovered S&S just after the beta was released. It sounds like it’s been a long journey, but as a longtime fan-of-TRoS-who-never-got-to-play, I’m excited to join the trek for this successor. S&S does a lot of what I liked in TRoS, and what it does differently so far I’m liking even more.

I have a question and maybe error report for the Survival skill.

It’s listed as “Survival (Specific)” but is has no discussion of how it needs to be specified, compared to the substantial discussion in other “(Specific)” skills. I’m assuming it’s things like “Desert”, “Arctic”, and “Forest” (or maybe “Temperate Wilderness”). Is that the right resolution of categories, or is this a skill that can go as broad or narrow as the player wants? And is the lack of discussion an oversight, or is it supposed to be self-explanatory?

[Agamemnon]

You are correct. It's actually been fixed in the coming release, but I forgot to put it in the patch notes.