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The following is the first scene of a short story that i've been meaning to write for the better part of a year now.
I decided to share it here.


Ramlin the Wizard, with a pipe in his right and a book in his left, was sitting in his front yard on a windless midsummer morning, when he noticed something rustling in the blackberry brushes.
“Sneaking around another man’s property isn’t well received in these here parts”, he said aloud with his big, bushy eyebrows furrowed.

The slow rill down the brae gurgled, the bees were humming in the flower patch, a gust of wind rolled by, and the shrubbery had turned silent again. Ramlin sucked on his pipe and returned to his literature.
Another noise – now it was coming from high up the apple tree.

Ramlin was never much for gratuitous patience, so he took a short glance at the tree’s crown, against the light of the sun. He whispered a word, and, without letting go of his pipe, knocked a rhythm—one, two-three—on the wood of the bench he was sitting on.

And then something fell out of the tree.

The sound of cracking branches, the thud of a drop cushioned by moss and tall grass, and a half-suppressed “Oww…” had come from the tree, yet Ramlin did not look up from his book again when he said “that’s what you get.”

Seconds went by, and then out from behind the tree jumped a child. Its hair—or rather, its mane—wild and unkempt, as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of grey nubs were protruding from its head, and a tail—with a furry tassel, just like a cow’s—was hanging down from its buttock; the trespasser was a troll, a female one, by the look of her face. And though trolls come in all shapes and sizes, there is one thing they all have in common: they are tough as nails, so aside a few bruises, the girl hadn’t been hurt.

“Tha’ was yir doing” yelled the girl, stomping her feet and pointing at him with her talon-like claw-finger, “Ye made me fall out-o tha’ tree di’n ye? Tha’ hurt like Haell!”
“No need to thank me” said Ramlin, knocking out his pipe on the ash tray, “the lesson was gladly provided. Now, little troll, if you would be so kind and go home or whence-ever you came from, I will re-stuff my pipe, and read my book in peace.”

The girl showed no inclination to leave; she steadied herself, with her beclawed legs planted wide apart and her likewise claw-bearing paws-for-hands slouched in the pockets of her faded-green, worn-out jacket. All the while she never stopped staring at him, and finally she said “I wan’ye te teach me tha‘ere Wizerd Magic.” //”I wan’ye te teach me. I wan’te learn Wizerd Magic.”

At that, Ramlin was mildly amused. “Why’d a troll want to learn Wizardry?” he said, stuffing his pipe again.
The girl crossed her arms. “C’s I’m a witch, tha‘s why.”
“Trolls can’t be witches” he said, lighting his pipe with match, “why don’t you just learn troll magic instead?”
“Aye, tried tha’. Didn’ werk.”
He laughed at her. “So you want to learn the High Art of Wizardry, yet you lack even the talent to do just troll magic. You’re out of your mind.”
“Oi! Tha’s… tha’s nae true, ’aev got lots o’ talent! I’m a witch f’sure!”
With a malicious grin, he said “Prove it.”

The girl had a worried look on her face for a second, but then she started glancing around the garden, in search for… something. The rain barrel, an old tree trunk, a large rock… were all too big, too heavy. Finally, she spotted an old-looking stool that was standing by the house, and nodded to herself. She raised her arms toward the stool, and she spread her fingers wide apart, and she squinted, and she spoke one word: “Burn.”
At first, nothing much happened. The wizard puffed his pipe.
“Burn!” she repeated, a bit louder. Still nothing happened, and Ramlin started “Don’t force it – are you trying to set fire to my…“

“I saed BURN! ”

It was then that the stool burst into flames—no, it was practically combusting—and the old wood had been completely incinerated in a fraction of a second, with light and heat and fire and smoke exploding from where once a stool hat stood, stirring up dust to mix with the fumes and blowing away bees, twigs, large parts of the flower patch, and a mouse that had been hiding in it – blowing it away, all that wasn’t nailed down, and scorching all that was.

Ramlin had been thrown out of his chair, and torn out pages of the book he had held lay scattered across the ground or stirring in the perturbed air – only the pipe he kept gripped in his right. That arm he pointed at his house’s roof, and extinguishing the remaining embers in the pipe with his thumb, he spoke “meol behelor ba-elehe ba-elel helit”, rather undignified, as of his lying on the ground, still – but, thanks to the Simile Link, the chant had come out in time, and extinguished the sparks that had been smouldering in the reed thatching.

The troll girl had been blown back, landing flat on her butt, and now she scrambled to get back on her feet while trying to swipe the soot off her face.

Ramlin was furious – but when he was standing again, he composed himself. “Yes, very good, that was. I myself couldn’t think of a better example of the pure, blunt, foolish use of way too much Magic – a perfect demonstration, of why not to use simplistic Sorcery” he said as he helped her back up, “which is why us wizards call it ‘Forcery’.”
She said “E-he-he-he… see? Told yer I’m a witch”, and blew him a raspberry. “Name’s Tam, by th’ by.”

And then her body went limp. The strain of great Sorcery was sapping her consciousness, and for the third time, she fell to the ground. The last thing she heard was the fading voice of old man Ramlin:

“That's not a girl name.”



[queue: 'Roundabout', by Yes] To be continued ...

Coming out of the closet with one's writing is a brave step! Not a joke. It truly is. Kudos, sir!

Now feedback

The first rule rule of writing is: Show, don't tell.

So, with the first three words of your story, you literally tell us who Ramlin is. Don't do that. Instead, show us him doing wizardly stuff and SHOW us that he's a wizard.

The second rule is to engage the reader with a conflict immediately. The reader doesn't care that the character is a wizard. Why should he? He doesn't know the character yet. But conflict is universal. And lighting a pipe isn't a conflict. Off the top of my head, I'd start of with something in the lines of...

Ramlin knew he was being watched. From the blackberry bushes as first, then from the shrubbery by the flower patch and humming bees. The apple tree made it almost a full circle. He sucked on his pipe and turned the next page...

Now we have a conflict (he's being watched), and we've SHOWN that he's aware of that. We also SHOWN he doesn't care, which makes the reader wonder why. From here on, we could ramp up the tension a bit more... and THEN have the confrontation with the troll girl.

Also, don't use extreme generics such as "another noise" or "something". Generics are boring. And lazy. Use specifics. "Another rustling of leaves" or "a small bundle" would serve far better.

But then again, I've never managed to publish anything, so, I might be completely off-base here

higgins wrote:Coming out of the closet with one's writing is a brave step! Not a joke. It truly is. Kudos, sir!

Eh, it wasn't that brave. I've fussed way too long over the entire text already, and all my friends i've shown it to so far don't seem to know any more on writing than i - so feedback was limited.



Funny story on the side: one of my friends was literally asking whether i have to constantly write her accent, instead of just writing something like

"Words" she said, in a thick accent

So far, her speech parts were easily the most fun to write (the paragraph with the explosion was a very close second), but, on top of that, for him to literally ask me to tell more and show less... gotta admit, i got a bit mad.

Now feedback

The first rule rule of writing is: Show, don't tell.

So, with the first three words of your story, you literally tell us who Ramlin is. Don't do that. Instead, show us him doing wizardly stuff and SHOW us that he's a wizard.

Dang, totally overlooked that.

You wouldn't believe how much time i spend thinking about the 'show, don't tell' rule - you literally wouldn't, from that first sentence, which is apperent now that you told me. Heh.

I'm actually really picky about style, to the point that i'll quickly put a book down if i notice certain elements in the writer's style that i find lazy at best, or jarring at worst.

EDIT
I'd like to add that "Ramlin the Wizard" felt more like the name (or perhaps the formal name, with title) of the character to me...
But that may well be a thing i need to, in particular, work on a lot more.
END EDIT

The second rule is to engage the reader with a conflict immediately. The reader doesn't care that the character is a wizard. Why should he? He doesn't know the character yet. But conflict is universal. And lighting a pipe isn't a conflict.

Yes, however ...

Off the top of my head, I'd start of with something in the lines of...

Ramlin knew he was being watched. From the blackberry bushes as first, then from the shrubbery by the flower patch and humming bees. The apple tree made it almost a full circle. He sucked on his pipe and turned the next page...

Now we have a conflict (he's being watched), and we've SHOWN that he's aware of that. We also SHOWN he doesn't care, which makes the reader wonder why. From here on, we could ramp up the tension a bit more... and THEN have the confrontation with the troll girl.

... i don't believe i can write like that - yet.

The most important takeaway from your point, to me, seems: i'm taking way too much time with everything before her falling out of the tree - which is funny: i had the first sentence and the "Sneaking around ... in these parts" sitting for quite a while, and i thought something was missing between it. Couldn't get on with the rest of the scene for weeks, until i realized that leaving it at that made so much more sense than any stretching could.

Also, don't use extreme generics such as "another noise" or "something". Generics are boring. And lazy. Use specifics. "Another rustling of leaves" or "a small bundle" would serve far better.

This is something with which i'm having a bit of a struggle.
My first language is German, as you know, and i just can't write in that language - i find its rhythm and sound unappealing and jarring in fiction prose, both reading and to writing.
English, so far, has been a lot easier for me to write, particularly in regard to rhythm and sound. What i'm getting at is, sometimes the more specific words seem to mesh worse with the rhythm of a sentence... other times of course, i don't know a more fitting word, but i think this will get better over time.
(And most of the times, i'm simply overlooking it. Which might well be the main reason as to why i've put it here.)

But then again, I've never managed to publish anything, so, I might be completely off-base here

Nah, i think you're onto quite something.
I'm rather more fond of parts further into the scene. Which makes sense, as i've written them more recently, while the first few paragraphs i'd practically taken over from when i've first started writing anything at all.

All that said, i have a gnawing feeling in the back of my head; that the scene would work so much better in a different medium. I'm thinking comic, here - which i've been meaning to make a foray into comics for years, never had a story before. Or, maybe even a children's book - but for that, i believe i'm rather too fond of swearing.

Thanks for sharing your writing with us nemedeus. Really enjoyed the piece, despite the faults Higgins pointed out, and looking forward to the next part.

Now, some feedback on my part. First of all I'd like to clarify that "rules" are merely guidelines. What might work for me could be silly at best for you. As Annie Rice said once

I don’t think there are any universal rules. I really don’t. We each make our own rules, and we stick to our rules and we abide by them, but you know rules are made to be broken. … any rule you hear from one writer doesn’t work for you, disregard it completely. Break it. Do what you want to do. I have my own rules that I follow, but they’re not necessarily going to work for other writers. … The only universal rule is to write. Get it done, and do what works for you.

That been said, as a reader, I feel that some parts are forced and artificial. For example the part that Ramlin extinguishes the fire seems out of style compared to the rest of the piece. In general I think that if it feels like writing it should be rewritten until it breathes and flows.

Hope that's helpful, and as I said above, really looking forward to the next part. Keep up the good work.

nemedeus wrote:queue: 'Roundabout', by Yes

You really made my day with this one.

Benedict wrote:Thanks for sharing your writing with us nemedeus. Really enjoyed the piece, despite the faults Higgins pointed out, and looking forward to the next part.

Now, some feedback on my part. First of all I'd like to clarify that "rules" are merely guidelines. What might work for me could be silly at best for you. As Annie Rice said once

I don’t think there are any universal rules. I really don’t. We each make our own rules, and we stick to our rules and we abide by them, but you know rules are made to be broken. … any rule you hear from one writer doesn’t work for you, disregard it completely. Break it. Do what you want to do. I have my own rules that I follow, but they’re not necessarily going to work for other writers. … The only universal rule is to write. Get it done, and do what works for you.

Well, i'm trying to figure it out, but as i said, there are things that i find exceptionally enjoyable to write, by which i am mostly thinking about dialogue - so much so that i'm worrying whether i'm putting in a bit too much of it...

That been said, as a reader, I feel that some parts are forced and artificial. For example the part that Ramlin extinguishes the fire seems out of style compared to the rest of the piece. In general I think that if it feels like writing it should be rewritten until it breathes and flows.

I've encountered that exact quote a few days ago, not quite knowing what to make of it, fearing some esotherical nonsense... "so i should try to hypnotize the reader?", i'd wondered...

So, the idea is to avoid overly abstract words/words with complicated meaning? And to instead rely on very "physical" words, like directions, simple verbs etc?

Hope that's helpful, and as I said above, really looking forward to the next part. Keep up the good work.

Thank you for the kind words. I haven't really got all that much further yet, unfortunately; i played around with a few other scenes further in, but i cannot promise anything with good conscience (although by now i do mostly know which direction i want to take it).

So i have to ask of you to be either very patient, or not keep your hopes up too high, for i'm very much playing this by ear, and feedback turns into edits fairly quickly in my case.

It's pretty much the first time i'm seriously trying to write anything (there were a few less committed tries in the past), and i'm doing the wrong thing: fussing over parts that already have been put down, instead of finishing the damn story so that proper editing can start.

nemedeus wrote:queue: 'Roundabout', by Yes

You really made my day with this one.

Memetum dankum est.

nemedeus wrote:

Benedict wrote:In general I think that if it feels like writing it should be rewritten until it breathes and flows.

I've encountered that exact quote a few days ago, not quite knowing what to make of it, fearing some esotherical nonsense... "so i should try to hypnotize the reader?", i'd wondered...

I wouldn't call it esoteric. Just try to put yourself in the shoes of the reader. I know its hard to do that and be unbiased but all writers must be able to do that.

If what you read feels forced or artificial then it FEELS LIKE writing. If the story takes you by the hand then IT IS writing.

There is no single guideline to achieve this effect. Only practice reading, writing, and make yourself as unbiased as possible when reading through your stuff.

nemedeus wrote:So, the idea is to avoid overly abstract words/words with complicated meaning? And to instead rely on very "physical" words, like directions, simple verbs etc?

This is a good rule of thumb to learn how to write. Avoid words you don't (exactly) know their meaning, use short sentences (10-12 words is a good start), avoid too many adjectives and lengthy descriptions/metaphors. But these are guidelines on learning how to write. After you practice that, if the story/characters require it, you can bend/break all of the above rules.

Alright. I'm not confident about this Part 2 (i fear it lacks a red string, so to say), but the sooner i get anything out, the quicker i can get feedback (it's also quite a bit shorter).

I've also revised Part 1, but instead of editing the OP, i'll put a download link - as soon as i can figure out where to put the file (can't access google drive with mobile, unfortunately).

Without further ado, i present to you



The Troll Witch
Part 2: False Charm

Cold water, splashing on her face. Ramlin was standing above her, blocking out the early afternoon sun. Tam wiped off the water with her jacket sleeves.
“Awake at last, forceress?” he said, and poured a cup of water. “Here, drink.”

“Och, I feel 'sif I'd been hit by an ogre” said Tam, propping herself up against the wall, and then looked around the garden – the wizard had apparently fixed most of the damage, but the scorch marks remained. She took the cup and contemplated it for a moment, before gulping it all down in one go.

“Not quite, you weren't …” said the wizard, squatting down to place the water jug next to her, and Tam promptly emptied it as well.

“Now listen up” he said, clasping his hands between his knees, “you’re getting way, way ahead of yourself.” He took cup and jug, and stood back up. “You’re missing all the basics. What you did earlier… that was Sorcery. Here’s a hint: Don’t” he said, and went back into the house.

Tam indeed had listened, and when Ramlin came back—carrying a tablet with another book, a half-emptied bottle of gold-coloured rum, and one steaming mug of coffee—she hadn’t moved an inch.

“Oh for Goodness' sake, what are you waiting for?” he said, as he set down the tablet.
“Fer th’ nex’ lesson” she said, matter-of-factly.
“Get lost.”
“I told ye, I’m not goin’ta. Now go’on with yer teachering, ’aem ready when ye are.”
“We’re done. There’s nothing else you need to hear, which is to say nothing of your lack of respect, troll.” He sat down in his chair, and poured a shot on the coffee. “Either way, I didn’t teach for free, back when I did – and now I’m both: retired; and also tired of your tomfoolery.”

She stood up, without haste. “Jus’ tell me why I shouldn’ do th’ Sorc’rer thing. Ye havn’t even saed yet.”

“If you haven’t figured it out by now, I don’t think it would make much of a difference” said Ramlin, and took a sip.

“Oi, ye still think I’m stooped, don’ye? Harrumph.” She turned to the side and looked up in the air, pursing her lips and scratching the base of one of her antlers. "I think..."

“Thar was… sumth’n” she said, and turned to face him again. “Sumth’n big. In me ‘ead, ‘n’ it was getting larger? An’ th’ thing, ‘twould only c’mout when I’d almost got nae room left in ‘ere.” Pointing at her forehead, she looked at him, her droopy, slanted eyes as wide as she could open them – with her antler nubs, it made her look like a fawn, albeit an ugly one.

Ramlin was looking at her. “So you’ve got some wits about you after all! False charm, that’s what it’s called, that ‘thing’ you felt. It’s like if you were trying to do a charm, but you don’t know which, so you put in as many as you can, all at once… You’re lucky it didn’t grow any larger, could’ve got stuck otherwise. And this—“
“Tha’s why I shouldn’t forcer it? C’s me ‘ead would bust?”
“—Don’t interrupt me—actually, yes, that’s how you could say it. Your mind would take damage, and you’d… lose a part. A part of your own self, literally. Although in your case, it might just be good riddance.”

[author's note: i think there is a paragraph missing here, and i don't know how to write it]

He let it sink in for a while, and watched her think. When he had finished his coffee, he cleared his throat. “Well then! Seems like you learned something. Are you satisfied, Tam the Troll Witch?”

She crossed her arms, and, eyes closed, said “Hrm. Guess tha’ll do fer now.” Hands in slouched in her pockets, she took the stroll down the pasture, until she reached the garden gate.

“No thanks? No farewell?” Ramlin called after her.

When she turned around, she had a big grin on her face. “Oi, but I’m nae dun wit’ye, ol’ man Rambling! I’ll be back soon ‘nuff!”

“Scram!” said Ramlin. And she did.

When she ran down behind the other hill, he could still hear her cackling.

nemedeus wrote:Funny story on the side: one of my friends was literally asking whether i have to constantly write her accent, instead of just writing something like

It's fine, although I sometimes feel you're overdoing it. Such as C’s being traditionally Cos' or Cuz, is one example.

nemedeus wrote:I'd like to add that "Ramlin the Wizard" felt more like the name (or perhaps the formal name, with title) of the character to me...

I suspected as much, but
a) it's a pretty bland name (think how Gandalf the Wizard would sound, as opposed to Gandalf the Grey)
b) it's still telling (you wouldn't begin a story with words "Eddard Stark, the Protector of the Realm and Warden of the North..." which is way too much exposition)

So, in short, we can dispense the fact that we're dealing with a wizard in the beginning and introduce it later. The girl could say that she came looking for "the wizard" ... or maybe she could even be glad to be knocked down from the tree with a spell, since now she knows for SURE that he's the one she's been looking for. Which makes the scene way more interesting than the standard "Ow!" response that everyone and their dog were expecting to come next.

No offence, but it's true. In fact, I've heard of a writing exercise of writing down every route that comes into mind about which way the scene should turn and then discarding all those options. Since people like the original and unexpected. I haven't personally tried that out though.

Also, while we're making changes, can Tam set something other on fire than stool? That word has a double meaning, y'know.

nemedeus wrote:The most important takeaway from your point, to me, seems: i'm taking way too much time with everything before her falling out of the tree

Not necessarily. To bring an example from Hitchcock, we could have a scene with a man sitting behind a table, reading a newspaper. We see him from several angles. Good cinematography, but nothing happens. He turns the page. We see more of him. And then there's an explosion from underneath the table and he blows up. Audience is in shock. WTF just happened!?

Now, if we play that EXACT same scene, but show beforehand how the ticking time bomb is set underneath that table, we have a completely different scene with audience pulling their hair out. "There's a bomb! Get outta there."

Of course, the latter is what you want. So, as long as you can keep up the tension, there's no real limit to what you can accomplish. Two caveats though:
a) this is your very first scene, so, you need to draw the reader in. some readers prefer the action, some the tension ramping. you'll need to find your own balance.
b) your scene reveals the "danger" to be a pretty harmless troll girl -- don't ramp up the tension as much so that it ends up being way too less than the reader expected

nemedeus wrote:What i'm getting at is, sometimes the more specific words seem to mesh worse with the rhythm of a sentence... other times of course, i don't know a more fitting word, but i think this will get better over time.

This will be your best friend: http://www.thesaurus.com/

Also, not to bash you or anything, but I'm pointing out two obvious "tells" from the first piece. "The girl had a worried look" and "Ramlin was furious". There were no such obvious ones in chapter 2, so, there's a definite improvement in that regard.

One point I also noticed, is that being authoritative puts way more punch to the text. Compare:

nemedeus wrote:Its hair—or rather, its mane—wild and unkempt, as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of grey nubs were protruding from its head, and a tail—with a furry tassel, just like a cow’s—was hanging down from its buttock

nemedeus with hesitations edited out wrote:Its mane was wild and unkempt, as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of grey antler nubs protruding from its head and a furry cow tail hanging from its buttocks

I think the difference is striking, especially with the mane part. The sentence still starts dragging in the end, but it's too late and I don't have the brain power to figure out what could be done with it.

Another thing I'm noticing is trolls and magic mixed with modern parlance and concepts, such as seconds, pockets and coffee. Some authors (such as Sapkowski) use modern parlance on purpose. Not sure if you do, too.

And now in chapter two, we found out that Remlin is old (retired anyway). By the way he talked and acted (mild arrogance, using magic for trifles), I assumed he was a young. So, if he's old, this should probably have been established a bit earlier.

nemedeus wrote:All that said, i have a gnawing feeling in the back of my head; that the scene would work so much better in a different medium. I'm thinking comic

This I cannot give you advice on. Snow Crash was originally supposed to be a graphic novel though. When I heard that, it made a LOT of sense.

Wow, i have SO much more to learn than what i had anticipated - which i, in turn, anticipated.
I'll respond point by point, and i'll add some (perhaps) problems i had noticed as i was writing the thing.

higgins wrote: It's fine, although I sometimes feel you're overdoing it. Such as C’s being traditionally Cos' or Cuz, is one example.

I'll concede, and that can be fixed.

Although, in the second part, i felt it wasn't thick enough - not because that would be a bad thing, mind you, just personal preference. What i mean is, her lines ended up with words that had no legitimate in-accent spelling.

higgins wrote: I suspected as much, but
a) it's a pretty bland name (think how Gandalf the Wizard would sound, as opposed to Gandalf the Grey)
b) it's still telling (you wouldn't begin a story with words "Eddard Stark, the Protector of the Realm and Warden of the North..." which is way too much exposition)

I'll concede that point. Later, I'll put up my revision of the first part, in which i have already fixed this (you used the word chapter further down, i wouldn't quite call it that yet)

higgins wrote:So, in short, we can dispense the fact that we're dealing with a wizard in the beginning and introduce it later. The girl could say that she came looking for "the wizard" ... or maybe she could even be glad to be knocked down from the tree with a spell, since now she knows for SURE that he's the one she's been looking for. Which makes the scene way more interesting than the standard "Ow!" response that everyone and their dog were expecting to come next.

This idea is fantastic, and i'm disheartened that i can't use it now according to the writing exercise you mention.

higgins wrote: No offence, but it's true. In fact, I've heard of a writing exercise of writing down every route that comes into mind about which way the scene should turn and then discarding all those options. Since people like the original and unexpected. I haven't personally tried that out though.

No offence taken - indeed, i think you're right.

I had revised part 1 according to your feedback - before finishing the second scene, in fact. i think i'll just make another post, i think that's easier for everyone (it certainly is for me).

Anyway...
When i write characters, my methodology is... hm, how to describe? I think that the way i write characters in prose is similar to -- or even the same as -- how i play characters in roleplaying games.

I've got a more or less specific "feeling" for each character (a "headspace" if you will, but i wouldn't call it the character's "voice"), and what the character says at any given point "grows" out of that "feeling". I don't have a plan. Loath as i am to make the comparision, i believe to remember Stephen King in an iterview describing a similar process on a much higher level ("the characters speak to you" or something along that line).
In short, i'm taking the next best thing, usually.

As i did with this part:

higgins wrote: Also, while we're making changes, can Tam set something other on fire than stool? That word has a double meaning, y'know.

Well, this is embarassing, hahahaha...

My literal thoughts when that happened:
"What the hell is she going to set on fire? I have no idea! I wanna get to the explosion part... Alright, a stool it is"
and the innuendo didn't even come to mind... god dammit, poop explosion. I'm so s-m-r-t.

Please, do tell me, should you have any better ideas than "footstool".

higgins wrote: Not necessarily. To bring an example from Hitchcock, we could have a scene with a man sitting behind a table, reading a newspaper. We see him from several angles. Good cinematography, but nothing happens. He turns the page. We see more of him. And then there's an explosion from underneath the table and he blows up. Audience is in shock. WTF just happened!?

Now, if we play that EXACT same scene, but show beforehand how the ticking time bomb is set underneath that table, we have a completely different scene with audience pulling their hair out. "There's a bomb! Get outta there."

Of course, the latter is what you want. So, as long as you can keep up the tension, there's no real limit to what you can accomplish. Two caveats though:
a) this is your very first scene, so, you need to draw the reader in. some readers prefer the action, some the tension ramping. you'll need to find your own balance.
b) your scene reveals the "danger" to be a pretty harmless troll girl -- don't ramp up the tension as much so that it ends up being way too less than the reader expected

Now after the revision, those opening paragraphs didn't end up significantly shorter, and i'm mostly content with how they are now, so i take that as you will.
Interesting example though, i'll have to think about it some more.

higgins wrote: This will be your best friend: http://www.thesaurus.com/

I've used it from the start (also dict.cc). Some words i've tried to replace didn't yield(what i thought to be) "good" alternatives - literally.

However, i'm confident that my word choices are going to improve over time:

higgins wrote: Also, not to bash you or anything, but I'm pointing out two obvious "tells" from the first piece. "The girl had a worried look" and "Ramlin was furious". There were no such obvious ones in chapter 2, so, there's a definite improvement in that regard.

I think i've weeded out most of them in part 1 now; you be the judge.

higgins wrote: One point I also noticed, is that being authoritative puts way more punch to the text. Compare:

nemedeus wrote:
Its hair—or rather, its mane—wild and unkempt, as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of grey nubs were protruding from its head, and a tail—with a furry tassel, just like a cow’s—was hanging down from its buttock

nemedeus with hesitations edited out wrote:
Its mane was wild and unkempt, as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of grey antler nubs protruding from its head and a furry cow tail hanging from its buttocks


I think the difference is striking, especially with the mane part. The sentence still starts dragging in the end, but it's too late and I don't have the brain power to figure out what could be done with it.

I'll concede that i'm quite a bit too fond of em dashes, now that i've started using them. And seeing as i'm using them as stand-ins for parentheses, without having to use parentheses...
What i mean is, i think parentheses look out of place in fiction prose. Em dashes, to me, have a different "feel" to them, but i use them exactly like i would use parentheses in any other kind of prose. I'll try to tune it down in coming pieces, and i have something to add to that further down after responses.

... why does not work? :c
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/bbco ... ough_text/ please?

higgins wrote: Another thing I'm noticing is trolls and magic mixed with modern parlance and concepts, such as seconds, pockets and coffee. Some authors (such as Sapkowski) use modern parlance on purpose. Not sure if you do, too.

My fantasy worlds have coffee - i don't drink it much myself, but i like it as a device for characterization, although i admit, it might be a rather flat one.
I didn't consciously know that pockets as we know them were an invention of the... well, some century after the 15th, if i'm skimming the wikipedia article correctly, but i'm not wanting to leave them out.
I think i'm going for a specific atmosphere (of which i can only give a vague description, ironically), and i know it's not a medieval one. So these anachronisms are intentional - i'm anxious to take that credit at least.

That said, i could replace 'seconds' with 'moments', and nobody would be the wiser - including myself in particular!

higgins wrote:And now in chapter two, we found out that Remlin is old (retired anyway). By the way he talked and acted (mild arrogance, using magic for trifles), I assumed he was a young. So, if he's old, this should probably have been established a bit earlier.

That is a point of critique to which i've got no counterargument. The 'using magic for trifles' was something i had been thinking about.

I imagine him to be in his early or late 40s, although aged rather well. He could have retired from teaching early, preferring the silent the country life... or he could be in his early 30s after all. But that's fictional speculation, which is the most absurd, out there kind of speculation; so i'll leave it at that for now - I'll figure it out another time.
Myself being in my 20s, writing an older character is bound to be something to put a lot more thought and effort into than i'm putting in as of yet.


Alright, now for the thing i noticed on my own.

Let me be honest: I'm feeling quite confident about the basics - in fact, i think i've got them mostly nailed, or at least that i can fix basically any and all problems in these categories when i notice them or when they're pointed out to me:

grammar of course, sentence structure, vocabulary (despite the thesaurus struggles i mentioned earlier);
as well as the 'more advanced basics' (in my opinion they're just as basic as the previous concepts) such as:
staying tenses, direct speech vs. physical action, description - not so confident, but i'm getting there; and...

The Narrator's Voice - or so i thought.

Obviously, i'm using the third person narrator. At face value, it's easy.
There are nuances, of course: as it happens, i'm not fond of the 'omniscient third person' at all (a matter of taste), and the 'subjective third person' notoriously feels just lazy to me.
So i'm going for the 'objective third person' - with an added assumption: i'm narrating scenes as if i'm looking over the shoulder of one character - i'm going to see what they see, but i'm not completely tracing their attention, so i might see things he doesn't.

Now compare this:

nemedeus wrote: Cold water, splashing on her face. Ramlin was standing above her, blocking out the early afternoon sun. Tam wiped off the water with her jacket sleeves.
“Awake at last, forceress?” he said, and poured a cup of water. “Here, drink.”

... to this:

nemedeus wrote: When she ran down behind the other hill, he could still hear her cackling.

I start the scene looking over Tam's shoulder. Somewhere in-between the first and last paragraph, i hop off hers, on his.

As you might have already noticed by now, in part 1 i do the same thing, but in reverse: starting on his and switching to hers.

My concern: Is this okay to do, or should i avoid that? When did the transition happen? And last but not least: Why didn't i notice?

Any thoughts?


EDIT:
i think i found the point of transition. It's this paragraph of heavy dialogue:

“Oh for Goodness' sake, what are you waiting for?” he said, as he set down the tablet.
“Fer th’ nex’ lesson” she said, matter-of-factly.
“Get lost.”
“I told ye, I’m not goin’ta. Now go’on with yer teachering, ’aem ready when ye are.”
“We’re done. There’s nothing else you need to hear, which is to say nothing of your lack of respect, troll.” He sat down in his chair, and poured a shot on the coffee. “Either way, I didn’t teach for free, back when I did – and now I’m both: retired; and also tired of your tomfoolery.”

Another EDIT:

Actually, what i'm trying to do is what appears to be called the 'reliable narrator', also called 'authoritative' as you mentioned further above.

mane—wild and unkempt

I thought this was redundant when i did the revisions, so i removed the "wild".

Alright, now for the revised part 1.


The Troll Witch
Part I: Tam the Witch

“Sneaking around another man’s property isn’t well received in these here parts” said Ramlin.

He was sitting in his front yard, with a pipe in his left and a book in his right. He knew he was being watched; it had started with the rill down the hillside—the splish-splash had been too loud against the stream’s lazy midsummer gurgling—followed by rustling in the blackberry bushes, and continuing through under the bees humming in the sunflower patch. Ramlin sucked on his pipe, and turned the next page.

Another rustling – of leaves, this time it was coming from high up the apple tree. Looking up from the page with brows furrowed, he took a short glance at the tree’s crown, against the light of the sun, and then he whispered a word, and, without letting go of his pipe, knocked—one, two-three—on the armrest of the heavy chair he was sitting in.

A live bundle fell out of the tree.

The sound of cracking branches, the thump of an impact cushioned by moss and tall grass, and a half-suppressed “Ow!” had come from it, yet Ramlin did not look up from his book again when he said “that’s what you get.”

It took the child only a moment until it jumped out behind the tree’s trunk. Its mane was wild and unkempt, and as red as fire, ears large and tapering, a pair of antler nubs protruding from its head, and a furry cow tail hanging from its buttock; the trespasser was a troll – a female one, judging by the shorter length of its canines. And though trolls come in many shapes and sizes, there is one thing they all have in common: they’re tough as nails, and so aside a few bruises, the girl hadn’t been hurt.

“Tha’ was yir doing” yelled the girl, jumping up and down on her bare, claw-bearing feet, and pointing at him with her likewise claw-bearing finger, “Ye made me fall out-o tha’ tree di’n ye?”

“No need to thank me” said Ramlin, knocking out his pipe on the ash tray, “that lesson I gladly provided.”

She steadied herself, planting her legs wide apart. “Tha‘ thing ye jus’ did” she said, with her paws-for-hands slouched in the pockets of her faded-green, worn-out jacket, “tha’ wus Magic, nae? Heard thar’s sum wizerd living ‘round ‘ere – feller goes by th’ name o’ Rambling. Tha’s ye, innit? Ye’re Rambling th’ Wizerd, arn’ye?”

“My name” he said, looking her straight in the eyes, bearded chin raised, “is Ramlin, and whether I am a wizard is none of your business. Now, little troll, if you would be so kind and go home or whence-ever you came from, I will re-stuff my pipe, and read my book in peace.”

All the while, she had never stopped staring back at him, and finally she said “Nae.”

“Nay? What do you mean, ‘nay’?”

“I wan’ye te teach me summ-o’ tha’. I want te learn Wizerd Magic.”

At that, Ramlin chuckled. “Why’d a troll want to learn Wizardry?” he said, stuffing his pipe again. The girl crossed her arms. “Cos’ I’m a witch, tha‘s why.”

He lit the pipe with a match. “Trolls can’t be witches” he said, and took a puff, “why don’t you just learn troll magic?”

“Aye, tried tha’. Didn’ werk.”

Now he laughed at her outright. “So you want to learn the High Art of Wizardry, yet lack even the talent for just troll magic. You’re out of your mind.”

“Oi! Tha’s… tha’s nae true, ’aev got lots o’ talent”, she huffed back at him, “troll magic jus’ doesn’ maek any sense is wha’s wrong w’th it. I’m a witch f’sure!”

With a wolfish grin, he said “Prove it.”

The girl tensed for a moment, but then she glanced around the garden. The rain barrel, an old tree trunk, a broken barrow, now used as a flowerpot… too big, too heavy, all. Finally, she spotted a decrepit bucket that was standing on the porch, and nodded to herself. She raised her arms toward the bucket, and she spread her fingers wide apart, and she squinted, and she spoke one word: “Burn.”

... nothing happened.

“Burn!” she said again, a bit louder.

Still, nothing happened. “Don’t force it” said Ramlin, eyes fixed on the pages again.

With a deep inhale, she pulled her arms in close, clenching her hands into fists. Ramlin was looking now. “Why are you trying to set fire to my——“

“I saed BURN! ”

It was then that the bucket had burst into flames—no, it was practically combusting—and the old wood had been completely incinerated in a fraction of a second, with light and heat and fire and smoke exploding from the spot, stirring up dust to mix with the fumes and blowing away bees, twigs, large parts of the flower patch, and also a particularly unfortunate mouse that had been hiding there – blowing it away, all that wasn’t nailed down, and scorching all that was.

When the dust settled, a darkened patch on the ground was all that had been left of the bucket.

Ramlin had been thrown out of his chair, surrounded by pages from his book that lay scattered across the ground – only the pipe he still gripped tight in his hand.

The troll girl had landed flat on her butt, and now she scrambled to get back on her feet while trying to wipe the soot off her face at the same time.

Ramlin had been fuming – but when he was standing again, he composed himself. “Yes, very good” he said as he helped her back up, “I myself couldn’t think of a better example of the pure, blunt, foolish use of way too much Magic – a demonstration befitting a troll, how not to do it… some ’Forcery’, indeed.”

“E-he-he-he… see? Told yer I’m a witch” she said, and stuck her tongue out, “… and th’ name’s Tam, by th’ way.”

And then her body went limp, and for the third time, she fell to the ground. The Magic had taken more than she could give, and as her vision faded, the last thing she heard was the voice of Ramlin:

“That's not a girl name.”

nemedeus wrote:

higgins wrote:So, in short, we can dispense the fact that we're dealing with a wizard in the beginning and introduce it later. The girl could say that she came looking for "the wizard" ... or maybe she could even be glad to be knocked down from the tree with a spell, since now she knows for SURE that he's the one she's been looking for. Which makes the scene way more interesting than the standard "Ow!" response that everyone and their dog were expecting to come next.

This idea is fantastic, and i'm disheartened that i can't use it now according to the writing exercise you mention.

Well, the exercise is for you to get the obvious stuff out of the way, not for ignoring advice you like. If you love it, use it, steal it. That's what I offered it for.

nemedeus wrote:Please, do tell me, should you have any better ideas than "footstool".

It could be a bench. Maybe even the same bench Ramlin was sitting on. Then you could have one end burn, Ramlin taking off with some added comedic value (seems fitting, considering the tone) and later you can have the burned bench there, half of it incinerated, instead of just a black patch. And I wouldn't have Ramlin clean it up, either. Wrecking the scenery is something a writer can do, free of charge. And frankly, wrecking stuff is something most good writers tend to embrace.

Think of it as Checkov's Ming vase. If in the first act you have a priceless Ming vase on the table, then in the following act someone should smash it.

nemedeus wrote:I'll try to tune it down in coming pieces, and i have something to add to that further down after responses.

... why does not work? :c
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/bbco ... ough_text/ please?

That's what "custom" means. I've now added it though.

nemedeus wrote:I didn't consciously know that pockets as we know them were an invention of the... well, some century after the 15th, if i'm skimming the wikipedia article correctly, but i'm not wanting to leave them out.

I'm sure some existed BC, but off the top of my head, pockets seem more like an enlightenment era thing when I think about period costume. And even then mainly on surcoats. The "classic medieval" time most fantasy is set in takes place in periods where pockets weren't as common. People wore belt pouches instead.

nemedeus wrote:I start the scene looking over Tam's shoulder. Somewhere in-between the first and last paragraph, i hop off hers, on his.

As you might have already noticed by now, in part 1 i do the same thing, but in reverse: starting on his and switching to hers.

My concern: Is this okay to do, or should i avoid that? When did the transition happen? And last but not least: Why didn't i notice?

Any thoughts?

That's called head hopping and it's not considered a good tone. Google for it, and you'll find more articles than you care to read about the subject. Including how it pertains to the reliable narrator.

nemedeus wrote:

mane—wild and unkempt

I thought this was redundant when i did the revisions, so i removed the "wild".

Of course, with all this advice here, you'll need to find a way to stop yourself from over-editing. If you overdo it, the text can become sterile instead. I was rather fond of the "wild and unkempt" mane.

I'll read the revised text tomorrow. It's way too late right now.

higgins wrote: I'll read the revised text tomorrow. It's way too late right now.

Good, allows me to do some hot needle edits...

I'd still axe the first two sentences. They seem like stumbling blocks to me and the scene works fine without either of them.

Also, now that I think of it, you could begin with "The old man knew he was being watched." This accomplishes two things:
a) you establish Ramlin as old
b) if you don't say his name in the prose, then it'll be established Tam's dialogue, and the old man correcting her, which is pretty smooth, if I do say so myself

nemedeus wrote:It was then that the bucket had burst into flames

nemedeus wrote:Ramlin had been thrown out of his chair

Avoid "had done x". Jumping into past perfect or past perfect continuous makes the prose passive and weak. Compare:

nemedeus wrote:It was then that the bucket burst into flames

nemedeus wrote:Ramlin was thrown out of his chair

Feel the difference?

nemedeus wrote:Ramlin had been fuming

Aaaand you're still telling us. Describe to us what he is doing so that we can SEE that he's fuming.

higgins wrote: I'd still axe the first two sentences. They seem like stumbling blocks to me and the scene works fine without either of them.

Is he reading a newspaper or a book?

Haha, sorry.

higgins wrote:Also, now that I think of it, you could begin with "The old man knew he was being watched." [...]

I think if i start with "The old man knew he was being watched", the atmosphere would be much tenser than what i thought i wanted to do.

Don't get me wrong:

higgins wrote:[cont.]
This accomplishes two things:
a) you establish Ramlin as old
b) if you don't say his name in the prose, then it'll be established Tam's dialogue, and the old man correcting her, which is pretty smooth, if I do say so myself

This is a great point.

I'm not sure if the "litera-cinematography" still works, is what i'm thinking.

... then again, that's probably just a sign that i'm looking at this too much like i would look at a visual medium (pun not intended).

Oh, and:

higgins wrote: a) you establish Ramlin as old

Oi! So now it's okay to tell? With due respect - i'm now kinda wondering, if i'd done that originally, would you make the other point?

I could imagine someone going like "here he says he's in retirement, that's plenty" - assuming that "character mentions a fact about himself" (in a way that feels natural and in context, which i assume i have achieved in that part) is still better than "you'll have to take the the narrator's word for it".

I can see why you would call this a more legitimate tell, if it's a tell at all - an 'old man' is strikingly different from "a man", and the difference is basic enough. That, and "old man" isn't a "Name, Title"
like "Ramlin, the Wizard".

I'm being overly explicit for this question's sake: am I understanding correctly? (In learning to spot one's own Tells, false positives, too, can be a problem - know what i mean?)

higgins wrote:Avoid "had done x". Jumping into past perfect or past perfect continuous makes the prose passive and weak.

im using past perfect here with the intention of...

Well now that i think about it, it's another visual media thing:

In comics, you don't depict a punch. You can depict the windup in the previous panel, and you always depict the moment directly after the punch connects.

While i haven't written a comic yet, as mentioned before, i'm starting to see how this "writing from behind a camera" is a problem.

higgins wrote: Feel the difference?

As i said, the moment of the explosion happens in this sentence:

It was then that the bucket had burst into flames.

I think i even had it as it's own paragraph, originally?

I thought it would make sense to use past perfect here. My line of reasoning was:

In this moment, a lot happens very quickly -> I can't "write that fast" -> I'll simply have one sentence in simple past that shows the action, and then continue with perfect past to show * CORRECTION: tell the effects -> this creates a "dust settling" impression -> Hey i think i like that.

NEVER MIND that, afterwards, i foolishly changed the first sentence to past perfect when i merged it with the following paragraph.

I can't even remember why i did that.




* Thanks, btw!

Hej nemedeus,

nice read! I'm especially impressed by your language skills.

My first impression: the atmosphere and language of the first two samples remind me heavily of Patrick Rothfuss's "The Name of the Wind". Which is good in general, because Rothfuss won several awards with that book. Though I personally dismissed it after the first few chapters because of the following reasons:

1. This style of fantasy isn't my piece of cake.
The way magic is "casual" on the one hand but seems to have little effect on the way technologies developed on the other hand is a topic few authors seem to consider. If magic was so accepted, then why is the "fantasy" world still like ours? If dragons are a problem or ghosts or demons, humanity would certainly invent a way to counter such forces especially when the general level of technology allows luxury products like coffee to be a thing (this is a thing Tolkien did greatly, when he gave pipe weed and tea to Hobbits exclusively, while the rest of the world was too war-like to invest much in such things; but they have neither access to technology nor to magic, so this might as well be a bad comparison). If magicians can forge magic items so easily, then why isn't there a market for magic everyday tools that substitute the invention of technologies like windmills and potter's wheels to begin with (again, look at Tolkiens elves, who haven't invested much into technology due to their specific way of doing extraordinary things (mind, not magic!) casually anyways)? What I say is: shouldn't there be a lower technological level in a magical society rather than a higher one?

2. The main character was so annoyingly flawless.
Kvothe (what a name) is supposed to be an "unequaled sword fighter, magician, and musician" but is "retired" as an innkeeper and so unbearably "traumatized" and "tragic" and somehow still in his thirties... With his supposed experience level, he could easily be in his fifties or sixties and rather well be an alcoholic or drug addict due to this severe trauma he "suffers".


Sorry, I wasn't intending to rant about another story in this thread, but when you mentioned that "old" ramlin is in his forties and "retired" I got reminded of that particular book. So if you want to write a successful story, go on and keep it as it is, because many people seem to like Rothfuss's style.

I personally prefer old people being old and flawed (and not so forcibly "cool") and magic either being an integral part of everything if it is widely accepted or (and I prefer this much more) be an outlawed field of study with high risk of losing your soul or ending on a pyre...

And I dislike people "retiring" in fantasy stories, as retirement is a really modern concept after all. People generally did what they did until they died (which wasn't necessarily at young age, as the "average" data is telling us, which is highly biased by high death-rates among infants).


Anyways, again, good language skills and professional enough to make me compare it with a successful writer! Keep it coming!