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thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:1. Precise Thrust costs 2AC. Which means a 4CP bonus spread between 2 Tempi on top of the +2CP Reach bonus. Way too powerful.

That's assuming that you have initiative 100% of the time.

I'll give an example. Let's assume a spearman of Ag3 Cu3 Spears6 = total CP12. With Emphasis 16CP. With current Codex write up he has RC 85%.

With RAW write up (+4CP with RC) one has the option to either attack or defend. Those total 4 dice can be translated to 2CP/tempo.
Attacking he could either Thrust at 8CP or Precise Thrust at 6CP or Bind & Strike* at 6CP.
Defending he could Block*/Parry at 8CP, or Deflect & Strike* at 6CP.
*provided he has a shield at hand used actively
All six options are pretty viable and he has equal chances to throw red or white for Initiative on Phr1 Tmp1.

By switching Emphasis to "RC makes Precise Thrust free" he has 14CP.
Attacking he could Thrust/Precise Thrust at 7CP, or Bind & Strike at 5CP. No reason to Thrust at all, while Bind & Strike is less advantageous.
Defending he could Block/Parry at 7CP, or Deflect & Strike at 5CP. Likewise defending seems less advantageous.

Assuming he has Reach (85%) and since Initiative is not stat dependent but pure luck (single die roll), on Phr1 Tmp1 the best bet would be to attack with Precise Thrust 7+CP. Because he'd choose the most advantageous available Wheel to target and shift accordingly to hit the weakest location. Which will increase chances of Impact on opponent and retaining Initiative.

If the opponent rolls white its cool. If the opponent throws red and beats him he can always preempt and hope for the best.

That means that the chances to roll red for the spearman are 100%.

In essence the chance of having Initiative at start of Melee is greater than 50% because his best tactic is to throw red, while opponent will throw either red or white.

To be exact in this scenario the spearman with Reach Control (85%) will have Initiative 70% while the opposition 30%.

For the 15% that he doesn't have Reach (equal length weapons - no one has Reach) he will throw white 100% and block/parry. At Tempo 2 he will switch to Reverse Grip and thrust to gain Reach. Then its Precise Thrust all the way.

That's why I say that apart from being powerful (Precise Thrust twice per Phrase for free) its one-dimensional by focusing purely on offense.

nemedeus wrote:

Benedict wrote:...Spear Emphasis becomes "Reach Control grants Advantage to Speed Contests" which is broken down like this:

1. No Reach Control: Resolve as normal the Speed Contest.
2. Reach Control & Original Attacker or Red/Red: Speed Contest at Advantage.
3. Reach Control & Preempting Attacker: Speed Contest at BTN (Disadvantage is canceled by Advantage).

I am completely on board with this.

However, wouldn't that kinda mean a spear guy will practically never throw red?

No, I believe that both options (red/white) are equally appealing in this case.

When he throws white both preempt at BTN vs BTN instead of BTN+1 vs BTN.
When he throws red he preempts at BTN-1 vs BTN+1 instead of BTN vs BTN+1.
On a red/red he prempts at BTN-1 vs BTN instead of BTN vs BTN.

In fact, , if he's willing to gamble with Speed Contest, he has more reasons to throw red than white.

thirtythr33 wrote:Alternately, "While you have reach control you get +2 dice to Contest of Speed when preempting."

That was one of my previous suggestions from page 1.

I'll sum all suggestions so far to have everything in place. I apologize in advance should I miss something.

SPEARS

Benedict wrote:1. When you have Reach Control you can favor one Target Wheel for free.
2. When you have Reach Control choose a target. Said target suffers Disadvantage at Positioning Rolls against you.
3. +2 extra dice used exclusively for Speed Contests while you have Reach Control.
4. Reach Control grants Advantage to Speed Contests

Korbel wrote:1. When spear-wielder has reach control, he can Disengage even if he attacked the last tempo.

thritythr33 wrote:1. When you have reach advantage precision thrust is free.
2. When you have reach advantage, you get advantage to positioning rolls.
3. When you have reach advantage, you can preempt without disadvantage.
4. While you have reach control you get +2 dice to Contest of Speed when preempting.

DAGGERS

Benedict wrote:1. +2CP at Refresh when you have Initiative. Applies only during a grapple or when you have Reach Control. Stacks with Reach Control for a total of +4CP.
2. Reach Control increases Thrust DR by 1 if the blow connects to anything but metal armor. Also applies during Grapples if one has Initiative.

thirty33 wrote:1. Probably the bigger problem is that you aren't allowed to use the Dagger Proficiency while grappling.
Maybe there needs to be a grappling rule along the lines of: "You may use your Dagger proficiency instead of Brawling while in a grapple but are restricted to the offensive maneuvers Swing and Thrust and the defensive maneuver Resist at disadvantage."

Korbel wrote:1. When you have Reach Control and attack with dagger, your opponent can only Dodge or use Grab Weapon to defend.

nemedeus wrote:1. i could imagine something like "final wound severity is doubled"

To save everyone the mess of multi-quoting I'll voice my concerns here:
1. With thirtythr33's suggestion that would be problematic because every knife fighter would have one less reason to invest in unarmed styles, since he could apply his Dagger proficiency during grapples. Also Reach is nullified during a grapple, meaning no Emphasis for dagger RAW. And piercing trauma converted to blunt vs metal armor. When grappling can disregard armor entirely.
2. I agree that Korbel's suggestion, while it needs a massive write-up and thorough testing as it will change everything, is cool, even if it can end on the bit complicated side. Just a heads up. I have a feeling that the creators went with "Reach Control gives +2CP" to avoid exactly this scenario.
3. Final wound doubled sounds a bit harsh when +1DR is more granular. At Lv1=Lv2 its the same. But Lv2=Lv4 and Lv3=Lv5 its overkill.

thirtythr33 wrote:Also, I made a thing.

Korbel wrote:Cool graph!

Indeed! And useful to explain to players not bothering to read everything how weapons/proficiencies mix with current write-up. Thanks!

Benedict wrote:With current Codex write up he has RC 85%.

If you use the assumption that Agamemnon made that Battlefield weapons will be fighting against Battlefield weapons, then I would estimate the spear starting with RC closer to 70% of the time. There is also the small amount of times (perhaps 5%) that he is ambushed by a shorter length weapon.

Benedict wrote:He has equal chances to throw red or white for Initiative on Phr1 Tmp1.

Why do you say that? Whether you roll red or white should primarily depend on your amount of armor and comparative dicepool sizes. If you have good armor or think you have enough extra dice to ensure that you will win a contest of speed and disable your opponent in a single attack then you roll red, otherwise you roll white.

Benedict wrote:Attacking he could Thrust/Precise Thrust at 7CP, or Bind & Strike at 5CP. No reason to Thrust or Bind & Strike at all.

You could say the same thing about someone with a saber and drawcut, no?

Benedict wrote:That means that the chances to roll red for the spearman are 100%.

This is a terrible strategy. He will die as soon as he goes up against another aggressive opponent who rolls better than him. Even if he doesn't die instantly, he will have given up RC for no good reason.

Benedict wrote:In essence the chance of having Initiative at start of Melee is greater than 50% because his best tactic is to throw red, while opponent will throw either red or white.

Really, combatants should be throwing white closer to 75% each. The spearman really doesn't give up much (if anything) by rolling white. He still gets to use the 2RC dice and he can use something like Counter in the first tempo to set up a huge Precision thrust in the second.

Benedict wrote:At Tempo 2 he will switch to Reverse Grip and thrust to gain Reach.

Personally, I think that spears gaining emphasis bonus at the shorter reach or dagger at the longer reach is rather silly. Imo it would be an improvement if these cases were somehow elegantly excluded.

Benedict wrote:1. With thirtythr33's suggestion that would be problematic because every knife fighter would have one less reason to invest in unarmed styles, since he could apply his Dagger proficiency during grapples.

As it is now, I think there is almost no reason to take Daggers over Brawling. If you are ambushing, Grab is a great opening. It makes it even harder for your target to get away, grapple maneuvers are utterly devastating and Brawling emphasis Wrestling gives you as many bonus dice as Dagger with RC does.

Likewise, Brawling is probably preferable when you are being ambushed as you won't have to try to win a positioning roll to draw your weapon. You can just go straight to grab, throw, gouge.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:Attacking he could Thrust/Precise Thrust at 7CP, or Bind & Strike at 5CP. No reason to Thrust or Bind & Strike at all.

You could say the same thing about someone with a saber and drawcut, no?

No. Because against metal armor Draw Cut=Basic Swing in terms of damage. Plus Draw Cut is AC1. Precise Thrust on the other hand is AC2 and can target vulnerable locations to your choosing, MoS permitting. Which on MoS1 means armpit, groin, face, or neck.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:With current Codex write up he has RC 85%.

If you use the assumption that Agamemnon made that Battlefield weapons will be fighting against Battlefield weapons, then I would estimate the spear starting with RC closer to 70% of the time. There is also the small amount of times (perhaps 5%) that he is ambushed by a shorter length weapon.

But this assumption is based on the assumption that the game will be a war campaign. Not everyone's cookie. If I'd hazard a guess, I'd say 30% of the players at best. And even then there won't be only battlefield scenes to fight.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:He has equal chances to throw red or white for Initiative on Phr1 Tmp1.

Why do you say that? Whether you roll red or white should primarily depend on your amount of armor and comparative dicepool sizes. If you have good armor or think you have enough extra dice to ensure that you will win a contest of speed and disable your opponent in a single attack then you roll red, otherwise you roll white.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:That means that the chances to roll red for the spearman are 100%.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:In essence the chance of having Initiative at start of Melee is greater than 50% because his best tactic is to throw red, while opponent will throw either red or white.

Really, combatants should be throwing white closer to 75% each. The spearman really doesn't give up much (if anything) by rolling white. He still gets to use the 2RC dice and he can use something like Counter in the first tempo to set up a huge Precision thrust in the second.

This is a terrible strategy. He will die as soon as he goes up against another aggressive opponent who rolls better than him. Even if he doesn't die instantly, he will have given up RC for no good reason.

What you fail to grasp is that I'm not talking about the average PC, but the average NPC. Since PCs will be on the receiving end most of the time, this tactic has more capacity to kill players than Spears RAW. Don't forget, what the players do to their foes their foes return it 100-fold. Not because of better stats, but because of probabilities. The average opposition will face the PCs, like what, once, twice? They will have to cope with 10-20 rolls from the PC? And get killed or subdued or escape/surrender. Much less than the times PCs will be on the wrong end of the spear. Much less rolls.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:At Tempo 2 he will switch to Reverse Grip and thrust to gain Reach.

Personally, I think that spears gaining emphasis bonus at the shorter reach or dagger at the longer reach is rather silly. Imo it would be an improvement if these cases were somehow elegantly excluded.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:1. With thirtythr33's suggestion that would be problematic because every knife fighter would have one less reason to invest in unarmed styles, since he could apply his Dagger proficiency during grapples.

As it is now, I think there is almost no reason to take Daggers over Brawling. If you are ambushing, Grab is a great opening. It makes it even harder for your target to get away, grapple maneuvers are utterly devastating and Brawling emphasis Wrestling gives you as many bonus dice as Dagger with RC does.

Likewise, Brawling is probably preferable when you are being ambushed as you won't have to try to win a positioning roll to draw your weapon. You can just go straight to grab, throw, gouge.

Totally agree on both accounts. Look, I'm not against anyone, and sorry if I came across offensive, that was clearly not my intention.

I'm just trying to point out what I find flawed or awkward or illogical.

Benedict wrote:No. Because against metal armor Draw Cut=Basic Swing in terms of damage. Plus Draw Cut is AC1. Precise Thrust on the other hand is AC2 and can target vulnerable locations to your choosing, MoS permitting.

Drawcut is superior to precision thrust in a lot of situations, regardless of costs.
Precision thrust is worthless against any wheel that has each location approximately equally armored.
+2DR from Drawcut is worth approximately 4 dice.
And wrap = always hit non-metal armor (unless they are wearing chausses).

Benedict wrote:But this assumption is based on the assumption that the game will be a war campaign. Not everyone's cookie. If I'd hazard a guess, I'd say 30% of the players at best. And even then there won't be only battlefield scenes to fight.

That's not what that assumption means. It is just saying that if you are in a situation where it is permissible for you to be walking around with a polearm, it is probably the same for your target. Then your target is probably also picking a polearm of some description because they are just plain better. That makes it far less likely you will get RC. The fact that in most campaigns (70% by your estimate) you can't just walk around with a 2h spear is a very good reason to take a proficiency like sword & buckler over spears, even if the spears emphasis is amazing. A spear will most often be used on the battlefield, thus it is most likely to be facing other battlefield weapons and opponents wearing battlefield armor (which, depending on setting, may be impossible for a spear to penetrate).

Benedict wrote:What you fail to grasp is that I'm not talking about the average PC, but the average NPC. Since PCs will be on the receiving end most of the time, this tactic has more capacity to kill players than Spears RAW. Don't forget, what the players do to their foes their foes return it 100-fold. Not because of better stats, but because of probabilities. The average opposition will face the PCs, like what, once, twice? They will have to cope with 10-20 rolls from the PC? And get killed or subdued or escape/surrender. Much less than the times PCs will be on the wrong end of the spear. Much less rolls.

I can't speak for every GM, but I play my NPCs as cautiously as I would a player. Did you notice that Rocco is the only NPC from the Floating City to have opened with a red dice? And that's because he was a raging idiot. Besides, if you find NPCs are always throwing red that is all the more reason you should throw white, lest you double.

Benedict wrote:I'm just trying to point out what I find flawed or awkward or illogical.

Likewise.

thirtythr33 wrote:

Benedict wrote:No. Because against metal armor Draw Cut=Basic Swing in terms of damage. Plus Draw Cut is AC1. Precise Thrust on the other hand is AC2 and can target vulnerable locations to your choosing, MoS permitting.

Drawcut is superior to precision thrust in a lot of situations, regardless of costs.
Precision thrust is worthless against any wheel that has each location approximately equally armored.
+2DR from Drawcut is worth approximately 4 dice.
And wrap = always hit non-metal armor (unless they are wearing chausses).

Wait, so I get it right. One can stack Augmentations of the same type on a single strike? Meaning I could Swing: Draw Cut+Wrap for 3AC? Or even worse Swing: Power Swing+Draw Cut+Wrap for 4AC? Sounds a bit too much.

thirtythr33 wrote: It is just saying that if you are in a situation where it is permissible for you to be walking around with a polearm, it is probably the same for your target. Then your target is probably also picking a polearm of some description because they are just plain better. That makes it far less likely you will get RC. The fact that in most campaigns (70% by your estimate) you can't just walk around with a 2h spear is a very good reason to take a proficiency like sword & buckler over spears, even if the spears emphasis is amazing. A spear will most often be used on the battlefield, thus it is most likely to be facing other battlefield weapons and opponents wearing battlefield armor (which, depending on setting, may be impossible for a spear to penetrate).

Not necessarily. It's more likely for PCs to assault a place with guards who are better armored and armed with battlefield weapons (spears, halberds, axes) while the PC are armed with less alarming gear because they couldn't get there if they were geared for full scale war.
Also in settings that armor is so good that its impossible for spears to penetrate it there are no spearmen around. It's fair to say that they have evolved to pikemen. Plus we are talking about rank-and-file formations, not individual combatants. Something outside the scope of Bastards/Scoundrels Melee combat.

thirtythr33 wrote:I can't speak for every GM, but I play my NPCs as cautiously as I would a player. Did you notice that Rocco is the only NPC from the Floating City to have opened with a red dice? And that's because he was a raging idiot. Besides, if you find NPCs are always throwing red that is all the more reason you should throw white, lest you double.

Well, after nearly 30 years of gaming experience, I can say that I don't regard you as the average GM.
What I'm trying to say is that when creating a rule it should be examined on any way it could be abused, be it by players and GMs. If the rule could be exploited to unreasonable extends from any side like I explained earlier, imho then the game is better off without that particular rule.

Benedict wrote:Wait, so I get it right. One can stack Augmentations of the same type on a single strike? Meaning I could Swing: Draw Cut+Wrap for 3AC? Or even worse Swing: Power Swing+Draw Cut+Wrap for 4AC? Sounds a bit too much.

Actually, upon rereading the rules, I was mistaken. "While many maneuvers can be stacked (see sidebar) augments within a single maneuver cannot be stacked together." (p52). If you Wrap with a saber you don't get the free drawcut.

thirtythr33 wrote:Actually, upon rereading the rules, I was mistaken. "While many maneuvers can be stacked (see sidebar) augments within a single maneuver cannot be stacked together." (p52). If you Wrap with a saber you don't get the free drawcut.

That's what I thought, even if I missed that part.

This means Wrap from Spear and Saber are equal (+1c) in damage terms.

In this light Spear Precise Thrust AC0 seems like a better option (most of the times) than Saber Draw Cut AC0.

Because Precise Thrust MoS1 allows you to target armpit, groin, face, or neck.

Benedict wrote: Not necessarily. It's more likely for PCs to assault a place with guards who are better armored and armed with battlefield weapons (spears, halberds, axes) while the PC are armed with less alarming gear because they couldn't get there if they were geared for full scale war.

If the PCs are assaulting opponents who are better armed and armored than them, then they should be prepared to face the consequences of that.

taelor wrote:If the PCs are assaulting opponents who are better armed and armored than them, then they should be prepared to face the consequences of that.

Yes, that's true. But please, don't isolate one phrase from a 1 1/2 page debate. This is diverting discussion from the original point, being that I believe that thirtythr33's suggestion "Spears: Reach control makes Precise thrust free" is unbalanced, powerful, and open to exploitation.

Benedict wrote:

taelor wrote:If the PCs are assaulting opponents who are better armed and armored than them, then they should be prepared to face the consequences of that.

Yes, that's true. But please, don't isolate one phrase from a 1 1/2 page debate. This is diverting discussion from the original point, being that I believe that thirtythr33's suggestion "Spears: Reach control makes Precise thrust free" is unbalanced, powerful, and open to exploitation.

I would also add that that suggestion kinda doesn't encapsulate what a spear does. I mean, even a rapier doesn't do this.
In that sense however, if the suggestion "+contest of speed when reach control" doesn't make it into spears, it would be a nice emphasis for a rapier/single-sword proficiency.

I'll use that as a segway back into the subject of a Greatsword/Montante proficiency. I'm still of the opinion that there should be one, or at least an alternative longsword emphasis that encapsulates greatswords.

thirtythr33 wrote:As it is now, I think there is almost no reason to take Daggers over Brawling. If you are ambushing, Grab is a great opening. It makes it even harder for your target to get away, grapple maneuvers are utterly devastating and Brawling emphasis Wrestling gives you as many bonus dice as Dagger with RC does.

Likewise, Brawling is probably preferable when you are being ambushed as you won't have to try to win a positioning roll to draw your weapon. You can just go straight to grab, throw, gouge.

thirtythr33 wrote:Probably the bigger problem is that you aren't allowed to use the Dagger Proficiency while grappling.

As I said earlier I totally agree with you on this. After some thinking and testing this is what I came up with.

Proficiency
Grappling uses always the Brawling Proficiency.
This means that when you are engaged in a grapple you must switch to the Brawling Proficiency at the first Refresh after you are engaged in the grapple.
If you don't have any Brawling Proficiency you default.

Emphasis
The moment you switch to Brawling proficiency at refresh, if you were armed at the moment you engaged in grapple and still armed, you have two options.
Use the Emphasis applicable to the weapon at hand . See weapons below.
Use a Brawling Emphasis.
No matter what you choose you will be using the Brawling proficiency.

Weapons
You can use weapons during a grapple in a limited way.
Hand and Close Reach weapons can be used but are limited to Swing, Thrust, and Parry, plus any augmentations.
Short and longer weapons can still be used during the grapple, but are limited only to attacks with hilt/pommel/shaft (lol) strikes if the weapon can be used one-handed.
Two-handed weapons are treated like one-handed weapons (-1DR) but also at disadvantage.

Given the limitations on weapon use, the only weapon Emphases that could apply are obviously Dagger and possibly in the future Mass Weapons to cover stuff like belaying pins or blackjacks.

Obviously if you are hit with a restraining move during the grapple you can't use the weapon in either way, you'll have to use grappling defensive maneuvers. But that allows for that one Tempo you do get Initiative to somehow use the weapon and for the Daggers to be a tad more effective.

Ofc these tweaks are in conjuction with my earlier Dagger Emphasis suggestions which both focus on Initiative instead of Reach Control (which is cancelled during grapples).



Another tweak I've been thinking about the Striking Emphasis which feels a bit under-powered compared to Wrestling or Grabbing.

Striking: Unarmed attacks deal +1DR. The Dodge and Slip & Strike maneuvers are at regular BTN instead at a disadvantage.

There's a whole lot to comb through on this thread, but something I thought I'd throw in for consideration.

Spear-fighting is a fascinating thing because it's a very versatile weapon. There are three primary advantages:

• Reach gives you both an offensive advantage and defensive advantage by default, which a long thrusting weapon is inherently optimized to take advantage of.
• The setup of a spear makes pre-empting a perfectly valid tactic. Anyone who wants to get close enough to strike has to risk being stabbed before they get in close enough to attack you.
• It's damn hard to position your way around a spear. The length lets it control a large area and you don't need to swing.

A lot of the suggestions try to go along with this by coming up with a mechanical effect that makes one of the three incentivized, but it's good at all three things. The existing benefit (+2CP bonus CP for reach control) gives them all of the above bonuses without needing to model each individually.

Agamemnon wrote:Spear-fighting is a fascinating thing because it's a very versatile weapon. There are three primary advantages:

• Reach gives you both an offensive advantage and defensive advantage by default, which a long thrusting weapon is inherently optimized to take advantage of.
• The setup of a spear makes pre-empting a perfectly valid tactic. Anyone who wants to get close enough to strike has to risk being stabbed before they get in close enough to attack you.
• It's damn hard to position your way around a spear. The length lets it control a large area and you don't need to swing.

A lot of the suggestions try to go along with this by coming up with a mechanical effect that makes one of the three incentivized, but it's good at all three things. The existing benefit (+2CP bonus CP for reach control) gives them all of the above bonuses without needing to model each individually.

I'll also add another bullet if its ok.

• The length and lightness of the spear allows the trained user with narrow/small arm and wrist movements to quickly alter thrust angles in a wide/big area, making it harder to dodge or block unless the opponent falls back.

I almost totally agree with you Agamemnon, save the "The existing benefit (+2CP bonus CP for reach control) gives them all of the above bonuses without needing to model each individually." part.

The flat dice bonus surely increases chances that the spearman will skewer the opposition before they can get in.

The problem is that it also enhances everything else. Do you have to fight on slippery ground and make Positioning Rolls not to loose your footing? The spearman does it better with Emphasis. Before anyone claims "dude, you use the pole to steady yourself", why is that so but not with the Polearm proficiency? You should switch to Spear proficiency while wielding a polearm to have better footing?

Also the concept that Proficiency represents fighting style rather than specific weapon skill makes things even more complicated. As you said the spear is a long thrusting weapon, we all agree on this. Can one use those two extra dice to Wrap? I guess yes. No biggie there, Spear is +1c, making it on par with most swords. Now I'm wielding an equally/closely long polearm that can thrust effectively. Can a glaive or a halberd be used with the Spear proficiency? I guess yes. What stops me to Draw Cut with a glaive for +4c at +4cp? Wrap with halberd for +3c at +4cp? Or thrust with a bill/glaive for +1p maille pierce at +4cp? From my experience on a one-on-one the halberd gains the edge when coming in closer, nullifing spear thrusts and forcing a pole-to-pole bout. Making the heavier halberd with those wicked side protrusions a lot more effective. As you modeled that with the Leverage emphasis, which I find an excellent concept.

Reach gives you an offensive advantage: True. Reach Control by itself gives you +2 dice.
Reach gives you a defensive advantage: Also true. As above, +2 dice. But what does a defensive advantage really means? Do you block better with the spear? Or you can get a jab in before they can close in stopping them in their tracks, making their attack ineffective? From personal experience I can say it's the latter. In game terms that sounds like Preempting, doesn't it?
It's damn hard to position your way around a spear. The length... : Also true. In game terms, could I say that "I want to position my self around the spear point" and call a Positioning Roll to do it? I believe not. The melee opposed roll is enough to model the "positioning oneself around the spear" part. Again, the +2 dice from Reach are enough, no need to push to 4 dice.

I honestly believe that "Reach control grants advantage to speed contests" models all four bullets better than a flat dice bonus and spares us from some awkward situations.

Provided that Speed Contests are tweaked like I explained to make it tick.

PS And a final note that has just occured to me which could affect everything regarding Emphases.

The single advantage/disadvantage concept, especially in a D6 environment, makes things a lot less granular. Instead of giving out advantage/free activation there is another avenue.

Since you are killing the exploding concept on dice rolls you could make exploding a concept exclusive to Emphases.

Example:

• Striking: Unarmed attacks deal +1DR. Dodge and Slip & Strike explode.
• Grabbing: kill this emphasis, leaving Brawl with 2: Striking & Wrestling.
• Wrestling: All grappling maneuvers explode.
• Dagger: Precise Thrust explodes while you have Initiative.
• Longsword: Attacks from the Wind explode. Access to Mastercut.
• Mass Weapon: Power Swing explodes.
• Messer: Counters explode. Choose Wheel from Counter while you have Reach Control.
• Polearm: Expulsion and Hook explode.
• Saber: Draw Cuts explode.
• Spear: Speed Contests explode while you have Reach Control.
• Sword & Buckler: Follow-up attacks explode.
• Sword & Shield: Shield attacks explode.

In this vein we could also have Ranged and Magic (when we get it) Emphases.

This is something I haven't played around with. I believe though that the possibility is worth considering, with the required testing that is.

Benedict wrote:The length and lightness of the spear allows the trained user with narrow/small arm and wrist movements to quickly alter thrust angles in a wide/big area

Here's the catch. Is for example halberd light enough (at the striking end) to allow such quick movements? The additional blade / hammer / hook / whatever adds some mass.

Benedict wrote:The problem is that it also enhances everything else. Do you have to fight on slippery ground and make Positioning Rolls not to loose your footing? The spearman does it better with Emphasis. Before anyone claims "dude, you use the pole to steady yourself", why is that so but not with the Polearm proficiency? You should switch to Spear proficiency while wielding a polearm to have better footing?

Well I don't see a big problem with this. Just use a little abstract approach. The spearman has Reach Control, so he gets additional dice - because it's easier for him to split attention. He can "control" the movements of his opponents. He's not at immediate danger. So that makes it easier for him to avoid slipping.

Benedict wrote:Again, the +2 dice from Reach are enough, no need to push to 4 dice.

I've been thinking about another version for Emphasis for Spears:

Spears take Reach Control even against Extended range weapons.

So they always have this bonus (spear vs spear aside), but it's limited to +2. And if that't not enough to take Spears, you could add the bonuses to Preemption or something.

Benedict wrote:make exploding a concept exclusive to Emphases

That's cool. We'd just have to have two macros in roll20, for exploding and non-exploding Maneuvers

nemedeus wrote:I'll use that as a segway back into the subject of a Greatsword/Montante proficiency. I'm still of the opinion that there should be one, or at least an alternative longsword emphasis that encapsulates greatswords.

I wouldn't mind seeing Montante and Half-swording as separate longsword emphases. The seem very easy to design for as well.

Benedict wrote:Striking: Unarmed attacks deal +1DR. The Dodge and Slip & Strike maneuvers are at regular BTN instead at a disadvantage.

I like this idea. Alternately, it could give the same +1DR bonus to Thrust and Swing with Bucklers and Gauntlets, not only Hands.

Benedict wrote:Since you are killing the exploding concept on dice rolls you could make exploding a concept exclusive to Emphases.

Having exploding in for combat and not for anything else seems like the worst of all options to me. I think exploding is too complicated and not impactful enough to warrant niche applications. It would use be a headache and get forgotten all the time. It should either be on everything or nothing. The only exception I might make is for Drives, since then it would be purely optional.

Korbel wrote:Well I don't see a big problem with this. Just use a little abstract approach. The spearman has Reach Control, so he gets additional dice - because it's easier for him to split attention. He can "control" the movements of his opponents. He's not at immediate danger. So that makes it easier for him to avoid slipping.

Except the spearman also inexplicably gets a bonus when using Swing, Grab, Dodge, Disarm, Bind & Strike and Shield Bash...

Korbel wrote:Spears take Reach Control even against Extended range weapons.

At that point you would be better off just making another range category and putting spears in it, or else you start getting weird stuff like:
* Changing back and forth between Spears and Polearms proficiency to have the preferable reach
* If a polearm lands a blow, do they now count as being at reach advantage, even though the spear has the same weapon length?