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dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

You aren't asking on a Thursday. That is your mistake.

dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

I've submitted another chapter's worth of final edits, as well as re-checked whether all the edits that I've submitted so far had been actually inserted. Some had not, so, I've notified Agamemnon on that as well.

higgins wrote:

dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

I've submitted another chapter's worth of final edits, as well as re-checked whether all the edits that I've submitted so far had been actually inserted. Some had not, so, I've notified Agamemnon on that as well.

Wait... are you implying we're actually for real close now? Like, less-than-three-months close?

nemedeus wrote:

higgins wrote:

dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

I've submitted another chapter's worth of final edits, as well as re-checked whether all the edits that I've submitted so far had been actually inserted. Some had not, so, I've notified Agamemnon on that as well.

Wait... are you implying we're actually for real close now? Like, less-than-three-months close?

The funny thing is that I'm a freelance writer. It's what I do to pay the bills. As you can imagine, if you worked as a chef all day it's really hard to go home and cook for a couple hours.

We're actually about done on most of it. There's only a handful of hours of solid actual work left to be done. It' just finding the time, energy, and will to do it. As it is, I'm lucky to get a couple hours here and there. If I could afford to take a week off of freelance work, you guys would have this bloody thing next Thursday. As in, six days from now, rather than Thursday™ Higgins and I at one point joked that we should just open a patreon or start some kind of GoFundMe campaign.

As it is, we're silly close to putting this thing out in the wild. I just have to figure out how to carve more hours out of the day.

Agamemnon wrote:As it is, we're silly close to putting this thing out in the wild. I just have to figure out how to carve more hours out of the day.

I admire your patience. I would probably have just given up long before even getting to that point.

And at the same time, i'm still wondering why you decided against just releasing an alpha. ;p
No, no, i do understand your reasoning, and you are right. You know what you want this game to be and that is a good thing.

But even then, I'm kinda wondering what you and higgins are expecting from the beta - to me as an external observer it seems like the polish may just be so high at this point that the actual content may well go unchanged until full release.

Agamemnon wrote:Higgins and I at one point joked that we should just open a patreon or start some kind of GoFundMe campaign.

You should have. i don't usually do patreon and things like that, but in this case i would probably have made the exception. ;p

We're all tensed up to the limit

We really don't want to strongarm you... but... your home is just ten hours flight and a couple of hours by car away from us

Good to hear that you are so close to get the beta out! I really understand your point Agamemnon. After I started as a programmer as a day job it has become increasingly rare for me to do any programming on my spare time. Occasionally I do some RPG related projects to make so probability calculation and have an excuse to get a look at a new programming language

Anyway, I think I have to really start thinking about the game on general level that doesn't need practically any knowledge of mechanics so I am more or less ready to unleash the thing on my players when I get my hands on the beta

Agamemnon wrote:As it is, we're silly close to putting this thing out in the wild. I just have to figure out how to carve more hours out of the day.

Another thing that isn't helping at all is the massive timezone difference. Most of our collaboration happens just after Agamemnon has finished his daily work, and just before I need to crash for the night. This has resulted in many sleepless nights where either I stay up for too long, or when I wake up in the morning to still see Agamemnon online, tinkering with stuff.

I don't sell steelplants in my leisure time either!

Fun aside, yes, I can imagine this to be a big problem. I have one project with a Russian customer in Chelyabinsk and a middle man who does his management in the USA close to Pittsburgh o.O

When I send my project emails to the American, he translates them and sends them to Russia for feedback, which goes the same route back

Maybe you should both move to Iceland to improve project communication and speed

nemedeus wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:As it is, we're silly close to putting this thing out in the wild. I just have to figure out how to carve more hours out of the day.

I admire your patience. I would probably have just given up long before even getting to that point.

And at the same time, i'm still wondering why you decided against just releasing an alpha. ;p
No, no, i do understand your reasoning, and you are right. You know what you want this game to be and that is a good thing.

But even then, I'm kinda wondering what you and higgins are expecting from the beta - to me as an external observer it seems like the polish may just be so high at this point that the actual content may well go unchanged until full release.

If you go into software development at all, alpha testing is that thing you do while you're still trying to make the game ..functional. It frequently involves testing isolated bits while the rest of the program isn't even fit for human consumption. As a result, it's generally done in-house with people who work on the team, friends, family, and others connected to the project in some way. It's something of a closed environment with often strict guidelines on what is being tested and how.

Beta testing is usually when things hit public, if they go public by release. Beta testing is generally supposed to represent a completed program that is fully functional. It is feature complete, in terms of the core features the program actually needs to function, though more features may be added over time or the program changed based on feedback. The purpose of the alpha is to ensure everything works in theory, and that all the pieces were assembled correctly. The purpose of the beta is to release it into the wild and see if it breaks on anyone, as well as to get general feedback on modifications that could improve the program.

We had alphas with our closed groups - the people we regularly play games with, basically. They were by and large the sort of thing that Higgins or I one would have to be present to run, because so much of the working systems of the game existed in notes and the like. I would know how to run it, and my players could play it, but said notes wouldnt make sense to the general public. As well, when I'm running an alpha with a closed play group, I can say things like "we're just going to murder each other for an hour and see if the combat system breaks anywhere."

Beta for us is the second stage - we know the individual bits work to our satisfaction. Now we're trying to get all the stuff written up in such a way that I can hand you a pdf and you can run a game with it.

higgins wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:As it is, we're silly close to putting this thing out in the wild. I just have to figure out how to carve more hours out of the day.

Another thing that isn't helping at all is the massive timezone difference. Most of our collaboration happens just after Agamemnon has finished his daily work, and just before I need to crash for the night. This has resulted in many sleepless nights where either I stay up for too long, or when I wake up in the morning to still see Agamemnon online, tinkering with stuff.

That's the worst. 90% of all of our collaborative work gets done because someone is missing out on sleep. Either it's 1am for him because it's after work for me, or it's when he first gets up in the morning and I'm still forcing myself to edit at 3 and 4am.

EinBein wrote:Maybe you should both move to Iceland to improve project communication and speed

There's a thought.

It keeps on amazing me how you can keep the ball rolling with that difference in time zones. I have some experience working with people in US and the time difference was around 7 hours, IIRC and that was difficult enough.

Case in point. almost 2am, im just finishing up some edits on the Edges & Flaws chapter.

Now sleep.

Great! This is just the kind of news we love Sleep well and recover

nemedeus wrote:

dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

You aren't asking on a Thursday. That is your mistake.

So... Is the beta out yet?

PsiPhire wrote:

nemedeus wrote:

dysjunct wrote:So... Is the beta out yet?

You aren't asking on a Thursday. That is your mistake.

So... beta?

If it the beta isn't out yet, it's No True Thursday!
When the beta comes out, you'll know it's True Thursday.